Raise dead scrolls

[Garfaldo]

With all this talk about how harsh death should be... it seems one a large factor is the ease of buying raise dead scrolls. A long time ago when all you could fight were goblins and Mossclaw it kinda was at the right price because the economy was very limited.

Now, it wouldn't be uncommon to make 1.5 k from less than 10 minutes of hunting. People carry armfulls of scrolls on them at all time removing the need to search out Clerics for aid.

My suggestion would be to raise the price to atleast 5k, maybe more, and put the priest selling them in a slightly less accessable area

What do ya think?

[Eternal Serf]

I think that is a bad idea. Lower level players wouldn't be able to afford the scrolls, people wouldn't feel the need to help others, ect ect. Lets leave well enough alone...

[Garfaldo]

I think it would raise the stakes of death without raising the penalty. It would inspire more cooperation in helping others. Also, it will prevent everyone on Sundren from being a psuedo-cleric and make them actually sought out for their abilities.

[psycho1976]

At what level can a cleric get the raise spell? If it is a bit high, you make the lower levels suffer needlessly.

Second - if you raise the price of the scroll much all you gain is that people will grind more to get the gold for the scrolls.

Third - dying from lag, which I might add is quite a reality, and then have to wait ages for a healer is a letdown.

fourth - Quite often I have been in groups of people and no healer in sight. What then if one of the team bites the bullet/sword? Basically you end up making it less fun for all involved by increasing the price.

[Raksha]

Any straight cleric can get Raise Dead as a 9th-level character. So any flat price increase would take the scrolls completely out of the possibility for lower-levels while not really affecting higher-levels that much. After all, who really worries about higher cost if their character is strong enough to basically grind for all the gold they want?

While the idea of making raises less casual is a good one, it has to be done through RP or some other system. A flat price increase won't really fix anything; it will just penalize the lower-levels a disproportionate amount.

It's worth thinking about other possible solutions, though, since I agree with the sentiment...

[Lanthar]

I think the scrolls should be exreemly hard to find, and realy expensive and set to cleric only. . and people shouldnt be able to use them with UMD.

Its just silly how easy it is to return to life.

[Garfaldo]

Any straight cleric can get Raise Dead as a 9th-level character. So any flat price increase would take the scrolls completely out of the possibility for lower-levels while not really affecting higher-levels that much. After all, who really worries about higher cost if their character is strong enough to basically grind for all the gold they want?

We're talking about levels 2-6 maybe before they can get a decent amount of coin to buy scrolls. At those levels, the 5% penalty for death is so minor, it's not even worth factoring into a decision.

In any event, I think most people that agree that when we come to this point where players are carrying boatloads of raise dead scrolls on their characters, something has to change. The penalty for death is already comfy enough as it is, the fact that people almost never have to succomb to it due to every Joe-Adventurer carrying a scroll makes it sponge cake.

[Saulus]

As part of our commitment to making death come at a high price, we will more than likely be increasing the cost of raise dead scrolls. I can't comment right now on the exact price as that is something I have to discuss with the rest of the staff.

[cmosier]

I can understand raising the cost of Raise Dead scrolls, however it is a bit harsh to say you cannot use them using the Use Magical Device skill. This skill gives an upper hand to Rogues, Bards, and Warlocks. Even in the pen and paper game, a rogue could possibly use all the powers of a Holy Avenger. It is a good skill and should be left alone.

[psycho1976]

As part of our commitment to making death come at a high price, we will more than likely be increasing the cost of raise dead scrolls. I can't comment right now on the exact price as that is something I have to discuss with the rest of the staff.

I foresee that this will only lead to more grinding of easier to kill monsters....

[Saulus]

I foresee that this will only lead to more grinding of easier to kill monsters....

It's a possibility, but if it gives partial incentive for people to not hang out at the Necropolis as much then it works out fine.

[IndigoSTORM]

Its just silly how easy it is to return to life.

Most things in a magic world like this are silly compared to real life. Why would returning back to life be more special than being able to turn yourself into a badger, go invisible or any other silly spell in general? Its not even classified the most difficult spell in the book. I have to break it to you; Its just a silly unrealistic game to begin with. I was able to afford a raise scroll at lvl 10 and been myself probably raised 2 times out of 10 - not once by a cleric who could actually cast the spell, to my knowledge. Raise by a cleric seems like winning lottery.

[Verginis]

Something I've seen done on a NWN1 server (Forget which, the isle of something I think) was the removal of Raise Dead scrolls from vendors and replacing them with a series of 'Soul Gems', which have a unique power that replicates raise dead.

The difference between the gems and scrolls is that a raise dead scroll has a 100% chance of raising someone and the gems have a % chance based on the gems quality and the level of the target.
For example, the cheapest gem might raise someone who's level 5 or under around 90% of the time, yet should it be used on a level 15 character it would only work around 20% of the time, and on a level 20 perhaps only 5% of the time. However, a more expensive gem will then raise a level 20 character 90% of the time, someone at level 15 about 99% of the time and someone under 5th every time. This makes raise dead available to everyone at a price that adjusts as you get higher in level, and keeps clerics and scrolls of raise dead (possible only obtainable via a cleric with the write scroll feat?) useful as they work 100% of the time.

Having no idea about how you've implemented your death system (Not played a great deal and been lucky in not dying yet!) I'm not sure if this would work on Sundren, but it might be something you could use, I suppose it depends how easy you want people to be able to be raised!

[Kokobunji]

Something I've seen done on a NWN1 server (Forget which, the isle of something I think) was the removal of Raise Dead scrolls from vendors and replacing them with a series of 'Soul Gems', which have a unique power that replicates raise dead.

The difference between the gems and scrolls is that a raise dead scroll has a 100% chance of raising someone and the gems have a % chance based on the gems quality and the level of the target.
For example, the cheapest gem might raise someone who's level 5 or under around 90% of the time, yet should it be used on a level 15 character it would only work around 20% of the time, and on a level 20 perhaps only 5% of the time. However, a more expensive gem will then raise a level 20 character 90% of the time, someone at level 15 about 99% of the time and someone under 5th every time. This makes raise dead available to everyone at a price that adjusts as you get higher in level, and keeps clerics and scrolls of raise dead (possible only obtainable via a cleric with the write scroll feat?) useful as they work 100% of the time.

Having no idea about how you've implemented your death system (Not played a great deal and been lucky in not dying yet!) I'm not sure if this would work on Sundren, but it might be something you could use, I suppose it depends how easy you want people to be able to be raised!

Definatly an interesting thought

[Eternal Serf]

I think there are so many other things in the world that should be worked on before playing around with Raise Dead and its costs or penalties. Truthfully, it ain't broke, so don't fix it, is how I look at it.

So far I've 'died' about 7 times in the game, five times during a party adventure where my companions raised me after combat using scrolls (which I always try to pay back), and twice by Sundren itself (since I wasn't in combat/dead/or even in a dangerous area when I logged out). If we had permadeath my character would be dead 2x over because of some system anomoly or lag. If the cost was prohibitive I doubt that others would volunteer to spend their loot to raise me.

Therefore I don't think its in the games best interests to increase the cost/penalty involved in game death. There are just too many problems with the NWN2 system (lag, wierd effects ect) to preclude players dying and loosing their characters.

Also, to those that like permadeath; a lot of us play to HAVE FUN, loosing a character after hours or even days of work due to some lag or even due to being a dummy isn't fun.