Locate creature ...

[bipolar bear]

first off this has nothing to do with me. and I have never used the spell or its fabled counter measure ring. however. after being in game most of the day and talking to a number of people from various view points .. if this spell is being "over used" or not used correctly either A) make the spell just as expensive as the raise dead spells (5k a use). or B) take it out all together and track down your foes the old fashion way with good ol police work, and C) higher a tracker.

just a thought. but if this is causing too much inter player conflict it might be best to do away with it all together.

just my suggestion.

[Fuzziebunny]

I think the spell is fine, it is all these home brew rules for the spell that confuse me.

The spell description says one thing, then other players RP something different from that. Honestly I get so confused with the home brewed rules on these spells. Maybe if the descriptions were updated to reflect everything?

[Phantom Lamb]

We agree. The mechanics of this should match how it's being enforced. We're looking into it.

[cmosier]

I've had it used where "Byrun was talking with <bad guy's name here>, I saw him..." Which lead to some really bad RP because that wasn't the case at all. I've just learned to ignore people about it now and let them come up with their own, usually wrong, ideas. That can actually be pretty fun. :-)

[Doubtful]

Nuke the spell from orbit, it's the only way to be sure.


Then, once we've fixed all of the issues with its function, ensured every location on the server is behaving as it should regarding scryability and given more long term detection countermeasures to more than just the Black Hand we can reintroduce it.

Saves a lot of messing about, as it stands its open to accidental and intentional abuse, confusion and misinterpretation, all of which cause problems and piss folk of.

[Barathos]

Agreed with Doubtful.

One thing to do too, if you DO want to do an actual scrying, could we get a DM on the case? Seeing as how scrying is an actual thing you can do in Forgotton Realms and all, but not have it readily used as a spell.

Example: You want to find Bob, but only one person knows about Bob and the other, a Legionaire, has an item of his. You bring both people together (all DM event-ish) and have the mage 'channel' the memories and the item to locate said person. If succesful, then BOOM! Bob is found.

This is merely and idea I had just to replace the current spell.

[Yevelian]

I personally love the spell, and would hate to see it nuked from orbit. However the areas do need to be looked at, or those abusing it, perhaps nuked from orbit.

[Doubtful]

Yup, you can scry as per the srd - A DM is required in game to set the DCs, do the saves and provide the information to the players.

As for Locate Creature, the implementation we have is fundamentally flawed when compared to the D20 version. Locate Creature, just like Sending requires you to be familiar with the creature you aim to locate, currently their is no familiarity aspect.

Locate Creature also only gives a direction, so you know something is North or whatever, but you have no given distance and certainly nothing as specific as the exact area/room names that the game engine gives you.

Locate Creature should be blocked by running water, so large portions of the server should be blind from various positions as the various streams and rivers shut off the spells sight.

Locate Creature should have a range, 400ft + 40ft per level, not across the entire country as it currently stands.

Locate Creature has a selection of non implemented or unavailable countermeasures, lead-sheet insulation for the truly paranoid homebuilder or arcane countermeasures, even being polymorphed should prevent a creature from being located.

In short, while the version we have now may function to some limited degree their are to many flaws and loopholes that enable it to be used as a meta-PvP seeking tool and all round headache generator. Creating a bunch of rules and regs to patch the current system will end up with an expansive and probably awkward ruleset which will only fuel more OOC confrontation over the use of the spell.

Personally I'd suggest declaring the spell out of bounds for the time being and disabling its scripts for the next update.

[Kitsunestume]

I think that part of the problem is this: http://www.sundren.org/forum/project.php?issueid=1827

As far as my current research and trials have indicated, ONLY the Black-Hand Ring of Nondetection functions as a countermeasure for Locate Creature, and only once worn for an (seemingly)arbitrary period of time.

[edit] Locking down the spell for now until it can be fixed seems like a reasonable path to me. It makes the Divination subschool even less useful, but it's a primarily RP-based function anyhow.

[Vladadier]

I agree... Remove it... Also, thank you for clearing it up Doubt. I wasn't aware that it isn't supposed to tell you exactly where they are. I will be sure not to ask someone to locate another for me, as I am tired of having to retcon things.

[Yevelian]

Again I say, don't remove it. I don't recall us having a meta-gaming issue with this before recently, but we've always had players that knew the limits. You can't locate someone you don't know, or in an area you haven't been to. It has it's uses, I would just hate to see it go away completely. DM guidance in this issue has helped clarify to it's users however, I would like to think.

[GodBeastX]

We have more metagaming than you will ever realize outside DM client I'm just letting you know that now. We aren't in the habit of logging into the forums and going "TONY JUST METAGAMED! THOUGHT ALL THE PLAYERS SHOULD KNOW!"

And if there is caught metagaming, there's definitely more uncaught metagaming going on.

I put the search tool in for people looking for RP that can find positive interaction on the server because, that's why we all login in the first place.

Locate Creature isn't abused by everyone, but that a few minority abuse it, that makes all the difference.

The server is well connected and small. The only reason to have Locate Creature in the game is so people CAN use it to locate exact location of people, so technically, I suppose, every casting is an abuse because it doesn't even act right.

[Doubtful]

DM guidance in this issue has helped clarify to it's users however, I would like to think.

Something like.

To use the spell 'Locate Creature' you must check the following:

1. If you are not familiar with the creature you are aiming to locate, do not use this spell.
2. Once cast the creature is located in a temple, lead lined building, faction HQ or other warded or null magic location then disregard the result as the spell has failed.
3. Once cast, compare to the location given for the creature and your location on the world map. If a river is shown lying on a direct path between your location and theirs then disregard the result as the spell has failed.
4. While you have the map out, check the approximate distance from your location to theirs, if it is beyond 400ft +40ft per caster level then disregard the result as the spell has failed.
5. PM the subject to ascertain if they are currently using potions of non detection or are under the effects of a polymorph spell. If they are using either then disregard the result as the spell has failed.
6. If none of the above are applicable then consult the world map for a compass based heading. (IE: You know if the creature lies in a direction North, South, East or West or any mixture of those from you.) You do not know the exact distance, nor their exact location.


Seems a little complex.

[Vladadier]

I feel like as soon as I sent a PM, I would ALWAYS receive oh I have my ring on, or oh Im polymorphed, even when they really aren't

[cmosier]

It does more harm than good. I agree and think it should be removed as well.