Hide in Plain Sight as Advanced Rogue Talent

[kitteninablender]

So it seems to me that most serious Rogues are HIPSters. Which requires them to burn two feats AND take 4 levels in a prestige class.

So why not do this: With the level requirements it means that a rogue wouldn't get HIPS before level 10. So why not just make it so that HIPS is pickable as one of the Rogue Advanced Talents, along with Crippling Strike, Improved Evasion, and what-not.

Reward the character for sticking with Rogue for at least a solid 10.

Thoughts, ideas?

[[DM] Grinning Death]

I'd be more inclined to give it to them at 20, because level 10 creates all kinds of folk who can HiPS who shouldn't. Fighters, clerics, and practically any other class that meshes well with rogue come to mind.

[Valhalla]

This has had many a thread that all ended with Lotus coming in and being like "lolno".

[Fury]

Top: This is us.
Bottom: This, Is Lotus.

[cmosier]

Rogues should not have Hide in Plain Sight as any kind of talent. They've done a lot with rogues and the only thing I think needs to be added is full movement Stealth. Giving a Rogue Hide in Plain Sight, Crippling Strike, and Death Attack without costing a few feats would be way too much.

[Fury]

I am all for even just a slight speed increase during stealth- especially if they have the feats stealthy, or shadow. Obviously, these would be people focussed on being unseen, and would be more sure of themselves, so it's not unreasonable to speed it up just a bit.

[Lotus]

If we gave them HiPS, we'd remove Death Attack. The Death Attack doesn't really make sense for them; it was plugged in to see if that would make the class attractive as a 20-level option. Survey says, "Nope!"

More than likely, when I get the time, I'll pull off Death Attack and write as many of the Pathfinder talents as I can.

[Fury]

If we gave them HiPS, we'd remove Death Attack. The Death Attack doesn't really make sense for them; it was plugged in to see if that would make the class attractive as a 20-level option. Survey says, "Nope!"

More than likely, when I get the time, I'll pull off Death Attack and write as many of the Pathfinder talents as I can.

That... makes me weep. For now I will have nothing to strive for in my epic levels

[cmosier]

I'd say leave Death Attack. All other Classes have been brought to the Pathfinder standard, why change it? I find it highly unlikely you'll find many people wanting to play straight rogues. I played one awhile back, it was fun and I'd like to do it again.

I'll be honest. You could give them the full move stealth, and that still wouldn't make the class more attractive to most players. I'd bet good money that once the killer traps are put in, you're going to have calls and requests for anyway possible to bypass them so players can avoid RPing, befriending, or paying a rogue to get rid if them.

I'm just basing that on comments and the way I see people play.

[Fuzziebunny]

I'll be honest. You could give them the full move stealth, and that still wouldn't make the class more attractive to most players. I'd bet good money that once the killer traps are put in, you're going to have calls and requests for anyway possible to bypass them so players can avoid RPing, befriending, or paying a rogue to get rid if them.

I'm just basing that on comments and the way I see people play.

I am curious as to what makes you say this. And why it is even a big deal to not to deal ICly with a rogue. There are ways to bypass traps now that don't involve making friends with a rogue and it is already IC and in the game.

Edit: just to make sure I add to the topic at hand to. I don't think rogues really need HIPS that badly that they can't spend a few feats.

[cmosier]

I am curious as to what makes you say this. And why it is even a big deal to not to deal ICly with a rogue. There are ways to bypass traps now that don't involve making friends with a rogue and it is already IC and in the game.

First Question: I'd have post so many screen shots it would be ridiculous. This is the nature of MMOs apparently. Sundren and its Devs can't really do a whole lot about it. It's the nature of RPGs these days. There are those of us who really like rogues, rangers, and warlocks and would play them regardless out of fun. Luckily, we seem to find each other and form practical groups. :-) It does help to have a powerful noble fighter in their corner as well.

Second Question: That wasn't the point I was trying to make. I was trying to point out that there is little else I think could make rogues more enticing to players. Hide in Plain Sight might work better than Death Attack with MMOs. I was thinking of Pen and Paper when I gave my answer. Personally... I would like to level a rogue and see what I can do. I had fun with my last one. Even though Hano was kind of a dick. :-)

[Doubtful]

It might be nice to have HiPS as a higher level talent, though I'd say that it would ideally be a level 16+ selection rather than a level 10+ one.

[greypawn]

Thoughts, ideas?

play an assassin. solid pvp class, i use to be able to take out characters of higher levels. like rogues, they are terrible at pve though. so you'll need to make friends and/or join a faction.

[Lotus]

HiPS is in the Pathfinder Rogue talents, so I could see including it as such, but not immediately at 10. I think I like Doubt's initial suggestion of 16+.

[Fury]

I like that. Honestly, I would go straight rogue if HiPS was in the progression. I want Death Attack, very much badly, but honestly- a Rogue needs that HiPS just to survive, so I had to make that sacrifice. If HiPS was in the progression, I'd straight class it all the way. Or, you know, I would have to go evil and do assassin.