Custom Knowledge Skill- Underworld

[Fury]

No, not Vampires and Werewolves- Crime.

The suggestion if for a skill, "Knowledge: Underworld" or maybe "Knowledge: Black Market" for the less than law abiding citizen. This skill would give insight on things such as being able to identify known poisons, the existence of crime organizations, how they operate, whether or not a situation might have crime involvement, where to go to get the best information, etc. It would be a little more in-depth than Knowledge: Local, because crime organizations are spread out and often interconnected.

Since crime organizations are usually very careful with identities and such, a successful role on this should never reveal a name, nor location of hideout- simply an insight into how things work, or a general idea of an area, or methods that are often employed by those of the criminal persuasion. And example would be someone winds up dead, and a successful check would indicate that the murder was a deliberate hit. A higher roll would indicate that the hit utilized poison, and a very successful role would reveal that this hit utilized a poison common in Calimshan, and was a common tactic of assassins from Amn. This skill can be used to identify the poison, but an alchemy role would be needed to determine components, potency, etc.

One of the reasons I have been thinking about this is because River's background gives her a great deal of insight into this sort of thing. It's a very specific niche of knowledge, and to me it just... sort of feels like cheating to have her know so much without having a knowledge skill to back it up.

Naturally, this knowledge area would be open to only a select few classes.

Thoughts?

[Lotus]

You're listing a lot of stuff that belongs to other knowledges and skills, like Heal, Craft: Alchemy, Geography, Local, and Gather Information. I would suggest putting points in those skills, as we're not going to synthesize them.

[Fury]

Fair enough! I was thinking of something a little more specialized toward the the dark, seedy underbelly, and to gain greater depth of knowledge, you'd need to have points in those other skills (sort of a crime world alternative to Knowledge: Nobility?)

Either way, it's more of an RP tool than anything else- something to add some additional depth and flavor, and something to think about. The world won't end if it doesn't happen. ;-)

[cmosier]

I'd suggest meeting up with my character Byrun. He has a quite a few Knowledge Skills, and could probably tell you the what's what in the Valley.

[Phantom Lamb]

Would be nice to see some skill focus feats, and other mixed general feats, that bump your knowledge up.

[Doubtful]

As lotus says the topics you cover in the op are already thoroughly covered by the existing knowledge or other skills.

Deducing that corpse A might have been a murder victim could require a successful spot or heal check to discover suspicious bruising or marks, maybe asking around might help, so gather information might get some leads, followed up by diplomacy or intimidate if you feel that the witness isn't being forthcoming enough.

Back at the lab maybe some alchemical, arcane or nature skills might come in handy in identifying the toxin used, if someone spotted the half hidden letter back at the crime scene then they might have been able to decipher the letter containing clues, or had enough nobility knowledge to know who the damaged seal belonged to or enough local (or geographic or even religious) skills to identify that sigil at the bottom.

All in all there are more than enough knowledge and pseudo knowledge skills to be going on with, creating another new one as a shortcut through them isn't really likely.

[cmosier]

I should have read more carefully before posting. You wanted information about criminal and similar activities. Since the Hellstroms are the epitome of fine, upstanding, and law abiding Nobles, they would have no knowledge of such deeds. Should they witness such acts of barbarity, their intense good morale fiber would require them to take just action immediately.

[Fury]

Eh, I think I must have failed to communicate properly, or something. I'm not talking about all the skills necessary to be CSI:Sundren- those investigative skills cannot and should not be replaced. (Except Gather Information- that is probably the most vague skill ever, and is- just as you say this one is- covered by a host of other skills.)

Just as Gather Information may help a person, I dunno, know how to use a library? This idea is just that extra little kick that, when looking at a gruesome scenario, may cause someone in the know to ponder silently to themselves "Definitely a hit. This is Coin turf, but that ain't a Coin job, right there". Sure, knowledge local can and should give you some of that, but really- as carefully guarded as a crime organization should keep their information, knowing where to get the best bagel in town should not also yield up information about the movers and shakers (pseudonyms, or their "tags" would be knowledge I would think this skill could give you. Never a real identity) in the underworld. It's a very specialized field. Consider the fact that, in the real world, we have law enforcement agencies have units dedicated to nothing but this. Sure, sure- this isn't the real world, and the average adventurer can get most of what they need from the other skills, so this one isn't really necessary.

Which is fine. I'm ok with "We don't want to do this, because you can get information other ways and this would be a massive pain in the ass".

[cmosier]

I've had issues with Knowledge Skills. I've been lucky to play with a group that values Role a great deal. Druids and Rangers shouldn't have to put points in Knowledge: Nature, for example (Yes... I know about Urban Rangers, but that's not the point I'm trying to make). In all honesty, the underworld should be something a decent local rogue would just know about.

There are two concepts in Earthdawn that make me think of this: Half-Magic and Practical Knowledge. The setting is fairly different than D&D, so take that into account.

Half-Magic is access to skills that a discipline should know. Warriors can identify tactics and make repairs to arms and armor.

Practical Knowledge is related to crafting. If you're a blacksmith you will have knowledge of the properties of iron.

[Fury]

Mmm, yeah, I can for the most part agree with that- and with a decent intelligence skill, River (or others) *should* just know a lot about their local scene. I suppose I would just feel better with a skill to back up the depth of her knowledge, even though it's a very big part of her background. In theory, she knows more about the Underworld as a whole, and a lot less about her local scene.

[gbbishop]

more knowledge skills is a slippery slope. I am not for adding MORE skills. Even though there are some things that are not accounted for. In PnP you had Knowledge _______ and could just fill in stuff.

As well as Profession skills.

Anyway, I think we have more than enough to play through the weird parts.

There is nothing to say you cannot take Local and RP a bunch of post about your "specialization"

Krya has Know local for example but I only use it for stuff surrounding the spine. Never for the valley.