Knock, knock.. Who's there?

[cmosier]

Yea. I learned awhile ago that calvary sabers were actually pretty blunt and used to smash bones. But you got what I meant, I hope.

[Kitsunestume]

Yeah. I understood it. Just not sure I have anything of use to contribute to the conversation relating to the OP at this point.

Basic synopsis: 1 rank lock-picking is superior to Knock.

[Elusa]

Just my two cents, locks on chests are fair game, but don't literally lock away content just because a party didn't have a rogue. Do what a lot of video game RPGs do: If the player has a high enough skill, they get a shortcut. If they don't, they have to go the long way around through enemies and traps. EDIT: Make the traps evil enough that the enemies don't just look like extra exp and gold.

As for the spell, I'm on my usual footing of change the PnP as little as possible. Knock should be able to open mundane locks. But I recognize that some things need to be sacrificed to make it work in NWN2.

[cmosier]

Removed due to wrongness. :-)

[Elusa]

The knock spell opens stuck, barred, locked, held, or arcane locked doors. It opens secret doors, as well as locked or trick-opening boxes or chests. It also loosens welds, shackles, or chains (provided they serve to hold closures shut). If used to open a arcane locked door, the spell does not remove the arcane lock but simply suspends its functioning for 10 minutes.

With arcane locks, they basically open for 10 minutes and then return to normal. And arcane lock is a spell anyway. You can't even lockpick it; it has to be dispelled or opened with knock.

[Saulus]

Just my two cents, locks on chests are fair game, but don't literally lock away content just because a party didn't have a rogue.

Don't think anyone suggested that.

[cmosier]

It's such an awful spell I couldn't even get through the whole thing.

[Elusa]

Don't think anyone suggested that.

Some people mentioned dungeons that couldn't be completed without picking a locked door? I may have misread.

[cmosier]

Some people mentioned dungeons that couldn't be completed without picking a locked door? I may have misread.

Happens.

[thaelis]

Some people mentioned dungeons that couldn't be completed without picking a locked door? I may have misread.

Yep, there are rooms in Argyle (4 in total I believe?) that are impossible to open without a Rogue. Which means the Emissary cannot be spawned except by Rogues. Also the entire dungeon beneath Necropolis is inaccessible without Lock pick skill.

Hence I haven't done either since they were changed. No rogues in my timezone

I'd prefer bashing being viable rather than Knock. Knock is so....easy. At least bashing takes 15+ minutes of your playtime.

[Elusa]

Well, knock was designed for PnP, where a lock only existed if the plot or dungeon demanded it. The DM would know the party's abilities and build the dungeon around that specific party. If they intended for the lock to be difficult to open, they would have it enchanted against knock. NWN2 forces a binary choice between making rogues more useful and making knock useful.

For bashing, there has to be some way to script some kind of fake bashing, where the door simply unlocks after enough damage rather than breaking apart. It's kind of pathetic when the strongest characters on the server can't break through a wooden door with tin hinges.

[Laurk]

Ya id keep locks to bonus treasure chests, and doors that lead to bonus treasure chests. Id put quite a lot of these in each dungeon, that way knock can opperate normally without making rogues obsolete (unless the wizard wants to trade significant combat ability for untility by preparing tons of lock spells), and a group can get a lot more treasure with a rogue.

You could also have locked doors to dungeons, so long as there is a key you can get somewhere in the dungeon. For example, if you've got a rogue, you can progress without the key. If you don't, you have to fight (or pickpocket) the tough orc in the dungeon to get his keys. The rogue makes life easier in this case.

Someone also suggested that in pathfinder wizard's knock spell can unlock DC locks using the wizard's spell craft instead of open lock skill. To me, this is pretty darn cool. Rather than using his hands like a barbarian, the wizard's magic manipulates the machinery by the power of his mind. Almost like a telepathy spell with subtle control based on the wizards ability to control and understand his magic. I have to admit I like this far better than vanilla D&D.

[Lugwy]

In PnP... Knock doesn't unlock anything... it causes locks to stop functioning for 10 minutes.

...So it does nothing?

(Unless D&D locks are actually magically powered electronic plot locks, somehow)

[Continuum]

...So it does nothing?

(Unless D&D locks are actually magically powered electronic plot locks, somehow)

Yeah, that's about right.

The knock spell opens stuck, barred, locked, held, or arcane locked doors. It opens secret doors, as well as locked or trick-opening boxes or chests. It also loosens welds, shackles, or chains (provided they serve to hold closures shut). If used to open an arcane locked door, the spell does not remove the arcane lock but simply suspends its functioning for 10 minutes. In all other cases, the door does not relock itself or become stuck again on its own. Knock does not raise barred gates or similar impediments (such as a portcullis), nor does it affect ropes, vines, and the like. The effect is limited by the area. Each spell can undo as many as two means of preventing egress.

It will permanently open mundane locks.

Edit: Looks like I'm late to the quote-party. No matter. Quotes for everyone!

[Elusa]

*coughs and points to her own SRD quote one page back*