Suggested Master of Many Forms changes.

[kitteninablender]

Hey guys. Just had a few ideas for MOMF. And the ideas came from this:

I looked at the stats for the forms available for Shapechange. And honestly: These forms go above and beyond ANYTHING the MOMF gets throughout the course of their entire "Career". Even the Dragon, whose stats are apparently horrible based upon what other players have told me.

So how about this:

At level 10 of the class, why not simply give the MOMF access to the spell Shapechange? Spend a use of their Wildshape, use the Shapechange spell. I think that's pretty fair. It is the penultimate ability of their class, after all.

Thoughts? Responses?

[kitteninablender]

And on that note: The special abilities of forms.

I was thinking since you have to be a Druid to go into MOMF:

Make the abilities for the MOMF shapes have a DC of 10 + MOMF level + Wisdom mod. Seems about right for Monster DCs.

[Mournas]

Honestly MOMF needs a serious boost, I am uncertain of what was thought of when the forms were made but you're pretty much taking 10 levels of useless. I am down for just about anything that makes MOMF a playable class. Hell give them full spell progression and leave their shapes for RP purposes.

[FriendlyNecromancer]

Mournas is right. As it stands now, the forms are purely there for rp purposes, even then it's very hard to rp as a monster race when anyone can simply kill on the spot as you lack spells/innate defenses to protect you.
If MOMFs are going to be stuck with no spellcaster progression, then their forms need a hell of a boost, the actual implemetation of the MOMF is severely limited/underpowered when compared to its pnp counterpart, you only have a very small number of forms , others are missing like construct, undead, ooze, other form types are supposed to be gotten earlier, and pretty much 95% of them are worthless as far as combat goes.
Forms need more innate abilites and higher and scaling dc for those, DR, regen, much higher natural AC, stuff like that, which some forms are already supposed to have, as you cannot rely on your druid spells at all. In the end, the druid ends up being a much better combatant while wildshaped as they can suplement their forms with powerful buffs and spells.
Then again it's my understanding that the Staff already knows the class needs a big boost, it's just not one of the priorities as of now but I'm sure it'll eventually come.

[Doubtful]

Polymorph (as in the changing of forms in general, not jus the spell) is just so broken and buggy that it's little more than a hilarious sideshow. The vast majority of things that make momf an rp powerhouse in PNP are simply out of reach for the nwn2 engine. Given the amount of dev time it would take to rebalance the class and code new abilities, creature powers and feats it might be better simply to offer up expanded wildhape choices via feats to traditional druids and allow momf as a specific "nice idea, terrible engine" class to go the way of the Samurai.

As for wandering around as various monsters and wondering why you're getting stabbed or attacked, I'd like to suggest that it's most likely because wandering monsters are the kind of things people should be attacking. It's actually much worse when people don't attack or react negatively to patently dangerous creatures. Having someone wander up to an adult red dragon and pat it on the nose calling him "all cutsey wootsey snuggle dragon" will make you rage a thousand times harder than someone stabbing a gnoll in public for daring to be a gnoll in public.

[kitteninablender]

Alright. I believe I have come up with some reasonable changed to the MOMF that shouldn't hopefully, be TOO difficult to code.

Just a warning: This is a pretty comprehensive list. This is also coming from somebody who knows next to nothing about coding, and comes from years of playing Pathfinder where, in my humble opinion, they got Polymorph spells JUST right. :P

I had received ideas from other plays saying that MOMF would be good with Caster level progression. I am inclined to agree, however, I believe that the class could benefit from a few extra class features. Primarily: Incorporating the Warshaper class from the Complete Warrior. I believe that the MOMF could "eat" the Warshaper to receive a nice boost in power without being too ridiculously over the top.

The Master of Many Forms (with changes) would look something like this:

Base Attack Bonus: Medium
Good Saves: Fortitude and Reflex
Skill points: 4 + Int
HD: D8
Class skills: Bluff, Climb, Concentration, Craft, Diplomacy, Disguise, Hide, Knowledge: nature, Listen, Spot, Survival

(( Note: This version has no Spellcasting Progression. ))
Level 1: Shifter Speech, Humanoid Wild Shape, Disguise Self
Level 2: Giant Shape, Domestic Shape, Morphic Strength, Alter Self
Level 3: Monstrous Humanoid Shape
Level 4: Dire Shape, Morphic Grace
Level 5: Vermin Shape,
Level 6: Aberration Shape, Tiny Shape, Morphic Endurance
level 7: Plant Shape, Oaken Resilience
Level 8: Fey Shape, Morphic Senses
Level 9: Elemental Shape
Level 10: Dragon Shape, Evershifting Form, Morphic Regeneration

The changes are as follows:

Morphic Strength: A Master of Many Forms learns to shapeshift extra muscle mass, able to make himself considerably stronger while still appearing the same. While in a Wildshaped form the Master of Many Forms gains a +4 enhancement bonus to Strength. This does not stack with Bull Strength or other strength enhancing spells.

Morphic Fluidity: A Master of Many Forms learns to bend and contort their body, allowing themselves to both dodge and strike from impossible angles. While in a Wildshaped form the Master of Many Forms gains a +4 enhancement bonus to Dexterity. This does not stack with Cat's Grace or other such spells. In addition the Master of Many Forms gains a +2 Dodge Bonus to their armor class regardless of which form he is in.

Morphic Endurance: The Master of Many Forms has learned to thicken his own body mass and shapeshift thicker skin. While in a Wildshaped form the Master of Many Forms gains a +4 enhancement bonus to constitution. This does not stack with Bear's Endurance. In addition the Master of Many Forms gains a +2 to his Natural Armor regardless of what form he is in.

Morphic Senses: From having spent so much time in other shapes, the Master of Many Form's senses increase so that they retain their animal-like acuity even in human shape. The Master of Many Forms gains Darkvision, and the Scent ability (see Gray Orcs., or the Track feat if that's not doable.)

Oaken Resilience: At level 7 the Master of Many Forms learns to assume plant shapes. He also learns how to alter his own internal organs to give himself plant-like qualities, regardless of the form he takes. He gains Oaken Resilience as a Bonus Feat.


Morphic Concealment: The Master of Many Forms has learned how to alter their own skin, like a Chameleon, in order to blend in with their Environment. The Master of Many Forms gains the Hide In Plain Sight ability. In addition, while they are in a Wild Shaped form, the Master of Many Forms gains permanent Concealment, conferring upon them a 20% miss chance.

[Doubtful]

Interesting. I'm unsure about the coding angles or if there's even a DEV who'd have the time to undertake doing all the necessary featy stuff and go through and rebalance every single creature.

Honestly, I think it would need to be either/or with the morphic abilities and spellcasting, not both. That said some kind of spellcasting progression might help, maybe something between 5/10 and 8/10.

I'm a little dubious about the Shapechange abilities, they all seem to fall outside of the traditional druid scope - Undead, constructs and devils are hardly in keeping with the magical-nature feel. Absolutely no chance on the perm immunities though, hilariously OP and it falls apart with even a little thought.

[kitteninablender]

Doubtful: this version has no Spellcasting Progression.

[thaelis]

Doubtful: this version has no Spellcasting Progression.

I think he's referring to the Immunity to Critical Hits and Sneak Attack. The other abilities you mentioned are all pretty cool and would make the class more viable whilst not being overpowered.

In general Immunity to Crits and SA is a gigantic boon in a game where critical hit scythe/falchion masters rule the world and DR isn't all that hard to come by

Although I love the concept of a no-spell-progression pure Shifter, I'd reiterate what Doubt said that the Iron Golem, Devil etc forms seem inappropriate. Even if they could shift into such forms (perhaps they can, I'm not familiar with the PnP class!) would any self-respecting treehugger really do so?

[kitteninablender]

Edit: Removed Morphic Immunities, replaced with Morphic Concealment. Removed Supreme Wild shape, added Oaken Resilience to bonus feats at level 7, same level they acquire Plant Shape. (Makes sense to me.)

[Shadechild]

Wow! Some of those buffs look really strong.

I just want to see the Forms upgrades =\

Druid = Caster / Shapeshifter

MoMF = Dedicated Shapeshifter, Minimal Casting

[Valhalla]

I played a MoMF for awhile and leveled to 20 with one not too long ago. What I'll add is this:

One of the fundamental problems with MoMF is the sheer variety. Balancing PrCs is hard enough with a standard one - a lot of servers don't even bother. That Sundren staff tries is to their credit.

But MoMF goes way beyond the scope of your normal PrC. There's a ton of forms. If you don't balance the early forms, people will have a shitty time leveling. And if you don't balance the later forms, people will have a shitty time in PvE and PvP. And if you just give up and only balance a few forms throughout the list, one or two in the earlier levels and one or two in the later ones, you've failed to live up to the ideal of the PrC.

It's fundamentally bad because it's a class that's all about variety in a medium where even one PrC is hard (and time consuming) to balance, much less a dozen creature templates available at will.



If you're going to fix the class in some way, though, the first thing I'd suggest is adding an ability that makes your natural weapons pierce DR, though. Pick a type - cold iron, alch silver, or adamantine, but one of the biggest problem natural weapon builds have in any D&D medium is the fact that you can't pop in a set of Cold Iron denchers.

[Doubtful]

Even if someone was to find the time to rebalance all the forms (so many!) and give the class an overhaul it would STILL be completely shit due to the limitations and buggy nature of the engine.

In all honesty (I've said this before) MoMF would be best of being removed from the table as a playable class. It's a shame, I love the class, I love the idea behind it and my second (or third) favorite character of all time was a MoMF, but it really is just too flawed.

Putting the whole class out of its misery would be the kindest thing to do.

[Dispater]

Hips and concealment? No. The class doesn't need some super powered capstone feat, it needs a slight buff to forms... The enhancements to physical stats aren't a bad idea. On the fence about oaken resilience. Those with some time into balancing forms would be enough to make this class more then viable. Even so, changes need devs and I can't guarantee that this will be high on their priority list.

[Lotus]

I might look at it after I finish barbarians.