Language Selection

[thaelis]

I've been meaning to mention this for a while, how would people feel about relaxing the restrictions on what languages you can and cannot learn based on your race?

Being a student of language it feels kinda odd to me that a Int 20 Elf can never learn Dwarven, Imaskarian, Halruann etc regardless of whether they're the Einstein of the Elven race.

Plus...the way it is now all Elves of Int 20 are forced to be linguistic carbon-copies of eachother since they only have about 6 languages to choose from.

I was thinking anyone with Int 17+ should be free from the normal restrictions.

((As I said, I'm not sure about the other demihuman races but I'm assuming they are just as limited as Elvsies are))

[wangxiuming]

I would not be opposed to this! Does anybody know why there are language restrictions anyway?

[Shadechild]

I would like to receive my characters native language too.

[cmosier]

I think it's best to leave the languages as is. In Pathfinder, when building a race, the ability to select any language was a pretty big deal (1 pt).

That being said, I don't see it breaking anything to remove the restriction.

[sonuvalich]

I just want more languages, for Sandro is a wizard and should know them all! Without the comprehend languages and tongues spells I feel that the class loses some of its RP power as translator and some of its fear in terms of always knowing what you are saying or thinking.

Wizards aside I do wish there were more languages available at character selection to flesh out the small details of a character. Push come to shove, I'll keep pestering DM's for more languages until they smite me, but I should totally know dwarven by now with all the time I spend with those hairy alcoholics.

[cmosier]

I just want more languages, for Sandro is a wizard and should know them all! Without the comprehend languages and tongues spells I feel that the class loses some of its RP power as translator and some of its fear in terms of always knowing what you are saying or thinking.

Wizards aside I do wish there were more languages available at character selection to flesh out the small details of a character. Push come to shove, I'll keep pestering DM's for more languages until they smite me, but I should totally know dwarven by now with all the time I spend with those hairy alcoholics.

Wizards have the option to take Draconic. Why should a wizard be able to know all languages? Wouldn't they spend most of their time studying magic instead of learning additional languages?

[Kitsunestume]

from my observation, your first-level-class and youir race determines the available languages. only first level rogues can learn Cant, without DM aid later. Clerics and Wizards get access to draconic, and the planar dialects, but not if they multiclass in later.

While it would please me greatly to see 'Speak Language' as a learnable skill, from my understanding its usually better to RP-it-out, either through overseen RP or forum-thread RP to learn. DMs can hand out languages if they feel the character has tried sufficiently to learn it.

[sonuvalich]

High Int character, so should start out with at least 4 or 5 bonus languages. As the Int gets stat bumped from leveling it would stand to reason that new languages might be learned (ranks of linguistics could be taken for SRD but not in the game). If you are studying magic you are going to have to learn other languages because it is arrogant to think your own people know everything about the Art, and old languages like Netherese would likely become more important as you delved into the heavy stuff. So I would likely be dumping some skill points into it every level to keep gaining languages, but there is not a mechanical equivalent in game.

I don't want to tangent the thread though, the discussion is about having a wider selection, and I very much support that for flavor.

[cmosier]

My context was one of Starting Languages. I don't think anybody would have a problem with a wizard RPing learning a new language to further his study in magic.

[Intrepid42]

Given all dwarves get it automatically, the closest default FR lore equivalent to the "Dwarven" language in the UI is probably everyday dwarvish. This is a bastard combination of Common and old Dwarvish words, and is not a secret.

The Elder tongue (or "true" dwarvish, if you wish) is a very old and complicated language. And which is very little-used or known, even amongst the dwarves (source, "Dwarves Deep"). I imagine it is probably not taught to outsiders, at least willingly. I am sure that the secret has been wrested from solely dwarven control over the Ages, and that non-dwarven texts on the subject exist, somewhere.

However, I believe that this distinction was made to facilitate gameplay around a PnP table, where keen dwarf players could speak in common, and chuck in the occasional dwarven word. And the dwarves could still have their cool secret language and stuff for when the humans weren't listening.

For the purposes of a PW, staff could rule differently.

[Elusa]

Personally I think all languages should be open to everyone. There doesn't seem to be any clear reason to restrict by race.

[Fuzziebunny]

I actually don't like the idea of all languages being open. Some languages are very secretive. There is simply no reason for anyone but someone of said race to know that language. Imaskarian is not a language that should be well known at all. Nor is drow sign, high elven and a slew of other languages.

[GodBeastX]

The only real restricted langauges are pretty much to covert ones, like Drowsign or Thieves Cant. Most everything else can be learned pretty regularly.

[cmosier]

I think the discussion was about the initial language options. For example, elves cannot learn Halfling. Gnomes cannot take Abyssal. At least that's how I understood it. I see no issue with these language restrictions and think they should remain. They represent the norm for those races. However, I don't see it breaking the game if a Gnome learns to speak Abyssal.

[Elusa]

I actually don't like the idea of all languages being open. Some languages are very secretive. There is simply no reason for anyone but someone of said race to know that language. Imaskarian is not a language that should be well known at all. Nor is drow sign, high elven and a slew of other languages.

There can always be IC reasons to know a language. To rule those out mechanically seems like a bad idea to me. A DM can always determine an inappropriate use of a language or language choice and revoke it.