Stupid Suggestions: Duality

[thaelis]

Ok so I have a couple suggestions this time, based on my random thoughts.

1) Spears: Make them finesseable. They are the lightest of the two handed weapons, their damage currently makes them literally redundant. At least if this was implemented they would be barely feasible for Dex-based Fighters, Rangers or Druids, whilst still being much weaker than Greatsword/Greataxe. Spears were one of the most widely used and effective weapons in human history. Why do they suck so much in NWN? Yes, I realise they don't have reach like in Pnp. So give them something else to compensate.

2) Scaling Spawns: I hate this, and I can't think of a reason why the spawn system works this way other than to interfere with RP. You can't RP with anyone more than 5 levels apart from you unless it's around a campfire (*vomits*). Also I am a Ranger but I am scared to go to 90% of the Viridale forest for fear of getting lowbies killed. And since people spend most of their time in those areas it's a lonely time hanging around the campfire waiting for people to come out of the "no-go" areas.

[BubbaCornbread]

I agree that spears are usually the lowest weapon used by massed armies in ancient times, well, except farm implements. However, not sure if it should be a weapon finesse weapon or not. What I think it should be is useable with a shield. Almost every ancient army ever massed used spears or a similar weapon with a shield. I never could fathom why the AD&D world put them as a two handed weapon.

As to scaling encounters, I am not sure if that is a good idea. I have run rangers before and I hear your pain Thaelis, but not sure if bagging the scaling encounters is a good thing. Some characters count on mobs to gain XP for levels, since they are not powerful enough to run in higher level areas by themselves.

Now, please do not cringe, I do not advocate solo play, but sometimes due to time-zone differences, lack of players on the game or at your level at one time or another, you may find yourself alone. Killing mobs may be better than either sitting at the campfire by yourself or getting killed at Argyle.

[Laurk]

Spears are the most ill-represented weapon in D&D land by far. They should be finessable too because a spear is a "very" fast weapon that would be a great fit for finesse.

In PnP I apply a -2 to strike when using in 1 hand with a shield, as well as the reach. Basically I give all spears free monkey grip, and I think this is accurate to RL.

One of the things Legacy did was just make them a medium weapon and up their damage a bit. They had low durability, but pretty much everyone used one until it wore out, then they switch to their side arm (sword or axe). At least I think that was the idea, not sure it was ever implimented properly (weapon durability updates I mean).

While I don't know if making them the go-to weapon fits with FR's theme, it sure would be nice to see them used at least. They are afterall the superior weapon of melee combat. Heck even Miyomoto Musashi, the greatest duelist of all time said that if two combatants of equal skill dueled, one with a sword, the other with a spear, the spearman would always win. Thats pretty high praise for the effectivness of spears over our modern love-affair but historically inacurate worship of swords.

[thaelis]

As to scaling encounters, I am not sure if that is a good idea. I have run rangers before and I hear your pain Thaelis, but not sure if bagging the scaling encounters is a good thing. Some characters count on mobs to gain XP for levels, since they are not powerful enough to run in higher level areas by themselves.

Haha yeah I know this scenario quite well as I can't kill anything near my level! Still, once something starts to double spawn for you it's already 5 levels below you and grants no XP anyway :S So I don't see how the bigger spawns help in that regard.

Maybe it could be changed to greater number of players in the area = bigger spawns?

In PnP I apply a -2 to strike when using in 1 hand with a shield, as well as the reach. Basically I give all spears free monkey grip, and I think this is accurate to RL.

That's a great idea! In the past the argument against that has been "But Stormlord's would become even more powerful!". Which is why this time I suggested Finesse instead. It wouldn't affect 95% of Stormlord's, who usually use Str for combat. Also finesse is super easy to implement right? 2DA change to one number I'd guess.

And really, Stormlords are powerful but no more so than other Clerics. And Energy Immunity (Electricity) pretty much makes you immune to all their powers.

[Aniril_Telin]

I use spears on my weapons master, though it would be nice to see a wider variety on the server. However I have no real complaints with having chosen spear over other weapons.

[Shadechild]

Maybe make two kinds of spears, a light and a heavy spear?

[Farmboy2003]

I run like hell everytime I see a mob with a spear, cause a x3 crit with a doublehanded weapon is always nasty. I'm planning on ordering a cold iron spear from James for my own ranger. I wouldn't mind a higher base damage, but I think the spear is fine. I think weapon finesse weapons are hardcoded. And I don't think It makes sense to finesse a weapon that gives you double strength damage anyway. Like it is impossible to use powerattack with weapon finesse weapons.

Scaled spawns? Yes please, but my ranger wouldn't be able to do much alone then either.

[Elusa]

Scaling mobs due to high level players in low level areas has always been a problem. Responsible players/groups clean up after they're done, but the problem of spawning them literally on top of other players can't be helped. There are some mobs that scale more than they should though. I would say keep the scaling, but lower the range of HD. Force players to explore new and unfamiliar territory if they want to face harder mobs, but leave in some wiggle room for weaker classes and groups that can't quite handle the next rung on the ladder.

Spears: Should be one-handed at least. A shield and spear wall is the bane of all cavalry charges.

[thaelis]

I use spears on my weapons master, though it would be nice to see a wider variety on the server. However I have no real complaints with having chosen spear over other weapons.

Sure, but his weapon of choice does 4 less damage (average 2 less) than other two handed weapons! He would lose to any other weapons master 9 times out of 10. Does it really make sense then that he would choose to specialise in such a useless weapon?

Of course it's not all about damage, but it has zero advantage to make up for that lower damage.

What I'm really getting at is that every weapon should have some advantages and disadvantages, otherwise everyone just uses the same weapon.

[Doubtful]

Historical accuracy again, makes me chuckle every time. I'd suggest simply using the term authentic as being slightly better. Historical accuracy falls apart in a setting that attempts to span a period with analogues everywhere from 3000bc to the ad1700s or later.

Attempting to reflect real world weapon effects within the engine and system we're using is a fools errand, may as well ask why you can't stab someone with a longsword, use the pickaxe part of a dwarven waraxe, punch someone's teeth out with my shield, use my bow with a buckler sheild, slash with a shortsword, or why poleaxes as pretty much the height of anti heavy armour hth weaponry is reduced to being a pretty shit joke. DnD isn't about realistically representing melee combat, its about carrying on the PR victory of the sword.

That aside it's a pretty well time post, the idea of changing weapon ranges has come up staff side and would be a nice way to give polearms and the like some advantage.

Edit: I've never understood the spear as a 2h weapon only thing either, should be freely monkeygripable.

[Laurk]

Attempting to reflect real world weapon effects within the engine and system we're using is a fools errand, may as well ask why you can't stab someone with a longsword, use the pickaxe part of a dwarven waraxe, punch someone's teeth out with my shield, use my bow with a buckler sheild, slash with a shortsword, or why poleaxes as pretty much the height of anti heavy armour hth weaponry is reduced to being a pretty shit joke. DnD isn't about realistically representing melee combat, its about carrying on the PR victory of the sword.

Ive seen most all of the above reflected nearly flawless with the NWN engine. But not without making the rules nearly unrecognizable as D&D.

Spears used with shield however should be a no brainer.

The big argument against spears giving you free monkey grip ive encountered in the past is that people will abuse it by wielding a greataxe in one hand and spear in the other. The easy solution is to simply put in the description of spears, that the free monkey grip feat is only to be used with shields.

[Farmboy2003]

I'd be mighty unhappy if spears lost it's two-hand application.

[Lotus]

Players can take Monkeygrip, planning on increasing range of polearms, not giving them finesse.

[and break 12345]

Make spears 2d4 20/x4 , halberds 1d12 20/x3 and remove scythes from the server.

And for tonight's late night fight, we have:

In the red corner! "Increasing the range of polearms" versus the challenger in the blue corner! "is it really worth anyone's time?"

To be overseen and judged by the one and only Referee "Totally not worth your time", and scored by the panel of "That's a pretty weak incentive when I can just use literally anything else and be better" hailing from the city of Obvious Number Crunches (somewhere in Asia, obviously).

[Farmboy2003]

Make spears 2d4 20/x4 , halberds 1d12 20/x3 and remove scythes from the server.

And for tonight's late night fight, we have:

In the red corner! "Increasing the range of polearms" versus the challenger in the blue corner! "is it really worth anyone's time?"

To be overseen and judged by the one and only Referee "Totally not worth your time", and scored by the panel of "That's a pretty weak incentive when I can just use literally anything else and be better" hailing from the city of Obvious Number Crunches (somewhere in Asia, obviously).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfRkcJ0BLS0