Barb & Ranger

[Talleyman99]

Just Pondering over some ideas on how to bring rangers and barbs up/in line more with the fighter, with out stepping on fighter.

Ranger: Bring hit dice up to d 10's all other marshal classes are d10 or better why not the rangers too?
Second, give them a handful of bonus feats (three?) allowing then to fill in there gaps in builds or take there fighting style one step further. Simple changes that I think would help with out making them crasy.


Barbarian: Ok this one is a little more out there. Make them more the natural tanks they try to be. Move there DR down so they get it sooner and make the DR end Higher. (7/ or even 10/) Second half of this would be give them 5/ elemental damage resist 3 times as they level. With there high HP and normally lower AC's this gives them a way to make there HP last a little longer.
Now to stop people trying to AC twink with a higher DR make it so these ability's don't work with tower shields and heavy armor.

Those are my ideas, Shoot away.

[Jhickey]

Very solid. I think that you could do a limited feat selection for the ranger that stays in line with the idea of what a ranger is e.g. skill focus, and combat feats based on their combat tree.

As with Barbarian, that is exactly what is needed. The ability to shrug off more damage, the nature of the server is that the AB of some of the mobs is high and a barbarians HP go fast. If it is possible you could code the DR with the rage ability, this would promote the use of the ability; and maybe a fast healing 5 also while in a rage. I know personally I attempt to avoid the ability until I am close to dying. This is personal of course.

These two classes do need some love. With Icewind Dale down the pipe I would love to see more options for some of these classes. As they both would play a pivotal role in the region.

[Farmboy2003]

There's many places you could oompf the ranger. I'm personally frustrated by lack of possibilities provided by the ranger spells. The spells themselves are fine per se, but the amount of spell slots available and the horrific low Caster level really limits any good use. Adding more spell slots or giving the rangers more Caster levels would also be a nice way to subtly add more power to the ranger - There's even a line somewhere that easily gives the ranger Level-4 caster level instead of CL=½/level

[thaelis]

+2 HP/level probably wouldn't make much difference to survival anyway, with Ac 10-12 lower than most Fighters, if the enemy sees you you're pretty much dead.

Also, both suggestions +HP and +Feats would really only make them more similar to Fighters, which would suck.

I'd love to see the Quarry and Improved Quarry abilities introduced. It gives a bonus to hit, which would allow their attack bonus to be (barely) as good as a Fighter against a single enemy every 10 minutes, for example a boss or an enemy player.

As for spells, as far as I can see in both Pathfinder and 3.5E the caster level is Level-3. What makes you think it is half character level? If so that would be a bugfix not an improvement to the class!

[Farmboy2003]

half caster level is standard. Its easy to change within the scripts, im told. Proof? My 14 ranger casts barkskin and gets +4 natural armor, hinting at a CL 7. Check the spell on the wiki

[Raksha]

Half-level is default for rangers and paladins, yus.

I'd love to see these classes get some more love. Ranger, at the moment... doesn't suck. It at least has a skillset at which it is undisputedly best (tracking), makes excellent archery bases for itself and for arcane archers, and can fit smoothly into almost any faction.

Barbarian, though. Mm. Yeah. With the fighter changes, there's no real reason to roll one.

[Fuzziebunny]

When I think of Barb, I think of burst fighter and well, stamina. Just, don't ask....

Anyway maybe give them a regen feat provided they have X amount of Con. And give their rage some love. Why not give them a feat that increases their rage per level of their class. make the feat only selectable at level 10. I mean, I know a one min buff that makes you a battle god seems op at first... But like all highs, you gots ta crash.

[ArenTrel]

Rage Powers.

With other classes taking changes from the Pathfinder classes, I would hope that Barbarians do at some point get the option of Rage Powers. Some of the ideas mentioned with higher DR or elemental resistances could be done in Pathfinder thru the use of Rage Powers. What are peoples thoughts on these?

I would hope that they are already on a list somewhere to be added, would just love to see them come a bit sooner rather then later.

[Laurk]

With a war ongoing in Sundren, some of the best reasons I can think to play a ranger or barbarian are RP ones involving scouting enemy troops and guriella style skirmisher tactics to hit enemies in suprise attacks, than outrun them. Barbarians are super fast, and a group of them would be deadly for taking out key targets and escaping.

Id love to see DM events that take adantage of specific sorts of PCs for this kind of thing.

It might be cool for another example to have an event where a ranger is trying to lead a small force to a key target that would litterally decide the next large scale battle.

Im always one to suggest caution when manipulating classes because its so easy to throw off the balance and wind up with a server filled with "these guys" or "those guys." But with the changes made, it sounds like higher damage reduction might be the way to go for barbarians. It might also be cool to give them a stunning or knock-back ability when they land solid 2-hander hits. Or maybe a feat that when whirlwind attack is used, it knocks foes back to reduce the incoming damage. Things that help them kill without getting hit as often dispite medium armor. Naturally none of this would work in higher than medium armor.

[Thief Of Navarre]

Like ArenTrel said Rage Powers for barbs would be nice.

[Dispater]

The staff is looking into class changes and balance issues. The greatest hurdle is that most all of these changes require scripting that most of us (or at least I) just can't do. That means they may not roll out quickly, but we are working on them and actively discussing options.

[MyNameIsDave]

I'm playing a crossbow ranger right now (I've already gotten an ear full about how I should reroll so just hold off on that for now) and one of the biggest troubles I'm having is getting through DR. We are not like fighters and able to get a big bonus to damage rolls. We actively have to seek out bows (and crossbows) with the mighty effect on them in order to get a strength damage roll applied to our attacks.

My suggestion would be to add in a pathfinder feat by the name of Deadly Aim. In Pathfinder it gives a -1 / +2 bonus to attack and damage rolls with an additional -1 / +2 for every 4 BAB. While I don't think its necessary to make a full -1 / +2 value or let it scale with levels, it sure would be nice to have something to help us punch through DR.

As of this moment, I'm starting to take levels in fighter, which is something I did not want to have to do. I aiming to pick up weapon specialization in order to increase my base damage in an effort to break through some of the DR I face.

[Farmboy2003]

most of the DR heavy stuff ive met are those at argyle. But a simple mighty bow and my FE's are more than enough to punch through. But thats my experience. AFAIK only bows can be mighty?

[Ditto]

Crossbows can have Mighty as a magical prefix, but it's usually a +1 or +2.

The Sword Coast Chronicles had Crossbow Sniper, a general feat that permitted a crossbow user to apply their DEX modifier towards damage rolls if they had Weapon Focus for that crossbow, and only half the bonus without. They also had a Master version of the feat that bumps the numbers to 150% for Focus, and 100% for non-Focus.

Putting those examples forward because considering the heavy feat investment required to make crossbows practical to use, they should receive a little love in return.

On topic, while both classes are in bad straits, Barbarians are in more need of love, in my opinion, due to the Fighter outperforming the class out of the water with competitive damage and greater survivability on a more consistent basis. Perhaps make the damage reduction percentile based instead of a static number? Give Hide and Move Silently as class skills if you are going for the "guerrilla warrior" route? Rage Powers? Having a Taunt to reduce enemy hit/damage alongside AC?

[Laurk]

Well on Legacy, the 2-hander would have been akin to barbarians. High damage output but very low AC. They were balanced by being able to stun and disable their opponents by knocking them sensless, or smacking them to the ground as free bonus' on their attacks while in powerful swings mode. Because of the insane levels of Armor Class we can get to in vanilla D&D, monsters have to be boosted to obnoxious ABs as a result otherwise most PCs would only get hit on a 20, and there would be no challenge. That means you're only going to see barbarians balanced by giving them extremely high DR or the ability to frequently stun and knock enemies over.... thus reducing the number of incoming hits.