Factions - Adding members & convo for Keys

[Doubtful]

I'll quote myself from another thread here...

ICly they [the wardens of the vale] remain a dead faction.

The wardens as they were are dead, corrupted or scattered, the grove corrupted beyond recognition by Talona's poisonous powers. The things that dwell at the heart of her blighted realm are beyond redemption or forgiveness, perhaps even beyond cleansing, save that offered by Kossuth and his followers.

It's an end of act 1 moment.

The tattered remnants of the faction, the other facets of nature in the valley and beyond - perhaps there something new, dynamic and involved can be forged, but whatever that is one thing remains utterly certain: it won't be the Wardens of the Vale of old.

Personally I see the continued ability to join the dead faction as an oversight, the existance of the store and banner return point is due to the continued existance of the Wrath of Nature as a faction.

The wardens are gone, the ability to gain rep in advance of a future unrelated and different strikes me as a mite silly. Just who are you supposed to be gaining rep with? Rather than having the future leadership of said group grown out of those that can banner farm or rep grind (again, with who? It's faction reputation, not karma) the leadership should come from those who are investing time, effort and both ig and forum time to the cause.

Only once the new faction actually comes into existance should people be able to join it and its leadership should then be able to promote or assign roles as they dictate, not because they collected a load of flags prior to even coming to the notice of the new group!

[Daimondheart]

I believe it's to show that, faction or no faction, a group of players are coming together and starting to make a name for themselves in the land. *Shrugs* I made a request, it was granted, so I'm assuming someone is supporting them and I'll just keep RPing with what I got in the mean time.

I'm a bit surprised we can turn in flags into Port Avanthyr of all places, but I'll take it. Can't wait to log in IG and see how it works!

[Raksha]

I fully agree, Doubtful, but it's nice in the meantime to have the feeling of progress in some tiny, utterly insignificant way when DMs aren't available. Likewise nice to have a space to converse on the forums that's not totally eavesdroppable and so on.

EDIT: And at some point in the future, I still think Adama should haul out her boxes of stored flags with no turn-in point and declare, 'most flags! Am the alpha now!' Then again, that might be a biiit meta. ^_^

[Daimondheart]

Hahah. Well, it wouldn't matter, as at that point the turn in person will just laugh at your level and say you should challenge yourself more.

[Farmboy2003]

I imagned myself that it was because my ranger is CG alignment.

Doubtful, what you say about the nature faction still being in the module seems inherent in the flaws it had. Why the heck would its remains be in to cater to natures fury, and not wardens, if they are the same faction? Seems to me that adding the wardens and the fury in the same faction was a mess to begin with. But that's another discussion.

I became aware that the wardens/fury were joinable at the library through other players, whom I shall not mention - and that joining them in this manner were perfectly allright - even tough faction rep are meaningless in this instance I would most certainly agree. I'd much appreciate if you didn't leave in mechanical possibilites and then scoff at players taking advantage of it. But that's a personal point.

I'd personally like a faction store and some faction items. I don't know if the ranger store is in still, but I really liked the weapons there - especially the bows. It's nice to have something to reach for, as your signature implies, right? It seemed a fitting place for my character untill all this exiciting new stuff is revealed, and some potential cooperation with the dawning avanthyr faction(I may be completely off). My timezone also interferes with my wishes of being an active faction member, but I won't hide the fact that I'd really like the mechanical advantages of being in a faction as opposed to not.

But am I breaking some sort of red tape barrier here? Then I would like to know. I can't cheat if I don't know it's illegal. It's my impression that this ninja nature faction store you-know-who came after the second sundering update.

[[DM] Grinning Death]

Why the heck would its remains be in to cater to natures fury, and not wardens, if they are the same faction? Seems to me that adding the wardens and the fury in the same faction was a mess to begin with. But that's another discussion.

The idea of the past nature faction was that the totality of nature was embodied by the various subfactions. The Wardens were inherently good-ish, the wrath was evil/chaotic-ish, and the circle was neutral.

It was a mess, because the faction was shoehorned into an area of the valley that is not a peaceful, relatively stable area. The Viridale is a deadly blight on the valley, formerly only tolerable because it had Legion presence blocking it from getting out. And, with the destruction of the nature faction, now even more so.

That being said, the Wrath was always focused more on the northern reaches of the valley. In particular, the Spine and the worship of Auril. Truth be told, the Wrath should be renamed or refocused towards that end, but that's an entirely different issue and my own personal opinion.

I became aware that the wardens/fury were joinable at the library through other players, whom I shall not mention - and that joining them in this manner were perfectly allright - even tough faction rep are meaningless in this instance I would most certainly agree. I'd much appreciate if you didn't leave in mechanical possibilites and then scoff at players taking advantage of it. But that's a personal point.

No one is 'scoffing.' At the time the library add-in was put in, the faction had not completely dissipated, and we made a mistake in not taking it out as fully as we wanted. But I'd much appreciate if players didn't take advantage of an oversight on the staff's part, and then get indignant when we clarify why it was mostly taken out in the first place.

I'd personally like a faction store and some faction items. I don't know if the ranger store is in still, but I really liked the weapons there - especially the bows. It's nice to have something to reach for, as your signature implies, right? It seemed a fitting place for my character untill all this exiciting new stuff is revealed, and some potential cooperation with the dawning avanthyr faction(I may be completely off). My timezone also interferes with my wishes of being an active faction member, but I won't hide the fact that I'd really like the mechanical advantages of being in a faction as opposed to not.

I can understand the mechanical disadvantages you face are tougher than most, because of the lack of faction gear. But the faction shouldn't exist in game, as we've stated. The idea that you should benefit from a faction that doesn't exist currently more so than anyone else who isn't in a faction isn't exactly fair.

But am I breaking some sort of red tape barrier here? Then I would like to know. I can't cheat if I don't know it's illegal. It's my impression that this ninja nature faction store you-know-who came after the second sundering update.

You know the staff's stance on it. We don't recognize it as a faction currently, and we don't condone representing it in the valley as it stands. Therefore, you tell me if you think it's permissible to act within a mechanical error.

[Doubtful]

I'd prefer to give a much larger and more in depth reply here than I can on my phone, sorry!

Wrath survived the destruction of the rest of the wardens by dint of their placement, they received the main faction store and their subfaction store as they were still viable as a faction - ie: the Wardens as they were are dead and gone. Wrath still exists as a standalone group who, due to the mechanics and low dev availability, require access to the old wardens store. This mechanical fact combined with the oversight in the book joining method means that people can join a dead faction and access a part of its stores.

The old nature faction and subfactions was a total mess, in all honesty I feel that any new standalone faction will simply fall back into the same rut and suffer the same issues.

The more I think about it the more I feel that a single nature faction is a terrible idea. Instead it would be much, much better to have several nature type sub factions placed under appropriate existing or potential factions.

IE:

Falkirk's Irregulars. a state group under the sundren faction; woodsmen, scouts, militiamen, farmers etc who are still on the surface and provide Intel to the state without being a part of the faction. Predominantly chuantea worshipers but with a smattering of other faiths.

Queens Knights: following their queens work shaping a new port in Sestra Umberlee has had something of a faith revival in the area, tolerated by the Black Hand as a potentially useful tool (after all, its better to be able to point a rabid dog at your foes than risk another gaining their allegiance) this group is largely umberlean in formation but also playa host to the scouts, archers and clergy of other land bound and useful faiths.

Alistairs Freemen. This group of individuals has aligned itself with the freer people of the port. This group sees the individual as being a thing of liberty and freedom, something they see the old state as being firmly against. Coming from a variety of backgrounds and worshiping a myriad of faiths these free people of the valley use their guille and cunning to protect the good people of the valley and further such freedom for all.

Aurillites: faction under the northern powers, it's their gods domain after all.

[Daimondheart]

I'm rather confused on this view that Druids should not be able to fit into the Viridale. I can understand it wasn't something the staff really had planned, but this notion that the Viridale was too dangerous for Druids (or even now for that matter) doesn't really make sense to me. From what I understand of druids, the dangers of the forest, if anything, only serves as a challenge to them.

Regardless, I'm just gonna keep RPing. It was never my intent to get caught up in any sort of OOC discussion on the issue.

[Farmboy2003]

I'm rather confused on this view that Druids should not be able to fit into the Viridale. I can understand it wasn't something the staff really had planned, but this notion that the Viridale was too dangerous for Druids (or even now for that matter) doesn't really make sense to me. From what I understand of druids, the dangers of the forest, if anything, only serves as a challenge to them.

Regardless, I'm just gonna keep RPing. It was never my intent to get caught up in any sort of OOC discussion on the issue.

Yeah, sorry about derailing the thread - I'll do the same.

As far as I knew there were joining quests to most factions before the second sundering - I honestly thought that the library joiner were something that were added after the city was lifted. I specifically remembered standing in Castrum and were joined to the Blackwood by DM Incognito, neither of us aware that there was an OOC autojoin method.

When I came back from my last absence I were to understand that the wardens were maybe getting a restart, namely by GM artemis, who isn't with us anymore - So I assumed a ninja update to get the wardens/nature faction a temporary solution. It was also by that time I read a hint in a thread somewhere about the library join method.

And I thought: Maybe the DEV/DM team are being nice towards players like me, and giving me a mechanical way to get into a faction before they're brought into the module proper.

I have a way of expecting the best of people in a manner that sometimes leaves me the impression that everything they do(or don't do) are intentional! I did not see it as a design flaw, or a leftover honestly.

I (re)made my current character expecting to be factionless, and the chance to join the wardens were a joyous thing, that is all. But yeah, Narrative beats mechanics every time!

And Doubt, broadening the possibilities for subfactions like that sounds like a very good idea that'll certainly speak to that 'gap' left out by the absence of CDG/Nature/CG/elves faction niche!