Rogues + Hide in Plain Sight (HiPS)

[Orlitoq]

What do people think of giving Rogues HiPS?

Now, I do not mean as a regular Feat, or even as a Talent, as those would lead to dern near everyone taking a splash of rogue. I mean as one of the Special Abilities that the rogues can pick at level 10+

My thoughts are that require a minimum of 10 levels would make rogue dips for HiPS unheard of, as well as ending awkward Shadowdancer or Assassin mixes.

[[DM] Grinning Death]

Nope. Don't think it's a good idea, because it's a supernatural ability that requires a special class that is focused on stealth.

Also, rogues get awesome bonus feats at level 10 anyway that are just as cool.

[Afkueen]

Assassin and Shadowdancers biggest plus against rogue (Now that rogue also has death attack anyways) is HIPS.

Give that to rogues and what do those prestige classes have left?

[Torgar]

Shadowdancers are not a good class thanks to obsidian crapping all over their class abilities. Giving the rogue HiPS over a shadowdancer is aces in my book unless something were done to make the shadowdancers not be a waste of levels beyond just RP. I'm all for RP builds, just saying that mechanically, they are the butt.

[Farmboy2003]

I have to agree with Torgar, it seems a trend that everyone and their mothers should have HiPS (rangers, rogues, Assassins etc), I'd much rather that Shadowdancer would be a worthwhile class with a significant boost in power - First and foremost the duration and/or uses/day of shadow evade.

Giving the ranger pure HiPS is a crappy solution too, the proper thing to do would be to ¤%&"% limit other classes access to HiPS so that ranger HiPS still is something nice.

It's even a bit too easy giving assassins HiPS, as being evil seems the only drawback.

Could anyone spread light on why the shadowdancer is so weak on sundren? I've been contemplating kicking up a class suggestion thread for it on numerous occasions...

[LOLC2k]

Shadowdancers are butt because

[Yevelian]

I totally oppose this idea. HiPS should be a value to Shadowdancers, and select other classes. Having it willy nilly on any rogue has never been an option, nor should it be.

[LOLC2k]

While that may be true, when the entirety of the reason to take a class is one ability something is afoul. No one would take shadowdancer 5-10 except for flavor. Nothing wrong with that, innately, I guess.... but I'd rather see shadowdancer made to not suck except for "that one really cool ability every rogue ever needs".

[[DM] Grinning Death]

We're always working on improving classes, as you've seen. I'm sure Shadowdancer will have it's turn, depending on developer resources.

[Mournas]

Giving rogues access to HiPS is a bad idea, and I could not agree more with Grinning Death's statement about HiPS being a super natural ability based around a style of character. There are three classes in the game that get HiPS: assassins, rangers (outdoors only), and shadow dancers; a rogue on its own is simply none of these the same is true in reverse (assassins, rangers, and shadow dancers are not rogues). Granted there is an affinity between aspects of rogues that are suitable to assassins and shadow dancers, but let us not obscure that affinity to the point in which we see it as equality. Hell, I even feel a 20th level rogue should not qualify for Death Attack, but that is a discussion for another thread.