Faction Suggestions

[[DM] Grinning Death]

Hey guys,

Something I'd like to pick the server's brain on, is the nature of faction membership currently. I want to know what you guys think.

As of right now, players who have sufficient rep can add or kick members from a faction at will. This has placed a significant amount of power into the player's hands as to who's part of your club, and who knows about it. I personally think this is a step in the right direction, but it's lead me to question if you guys think so.

And, if you do, how much further you're willing to go. I want to pick your brains on new systems to make faction conflict more interesting besides PvP, and without overt DM interaction. It's nice when DM's are around, don't get me wrong. But I think that when DM's vanish for a period of time, it tends to slow momentum in faction play. I want to come up with a few ideas that might provide fewer barriers to RP and character development, while still being feasible within mechanics.

I have a few ideas as is, but I want to see what you guys come up with. Thoughts?

[Clangeddin]

I'll just throw the idea out there:

Maybe there could be places that can be occupied by the various factions?
For example, the abandoned Legion Camp in Viridale Forest seems like a waste of a map to me, I wonder if there could be some legal squabble over the factions to get their hands on it.
For example, even players of the Legion could get it back to work if they convince some official high up the ranks that it's worth the time.
This could also lead to certain factions that were "neutral" between each other, to change to being friendly or hostile depending on the behaviour of players in the server.

[Kitsunestume]

I've got a couple ideas:
Firstly, I think that GBX Paycheck system is an awesome potential for this kind of thing. It could easily be combined as a form of incentive, partially seeing as I've not noticed any faction with a wealth other than 1000. Perhaps one or two capturable 'King-of-the-hill' areas, like Clangeddin was talking about, couple provide a minor boost to the faction wealth of the controlling party.

Another possibility might be the ability to offer support to factions, similar to the ability to vouch people, only by vote. Perhaps that invididuals can vote once a week, with higher reputation or rank counting for more, obviously, and the week afterwards, the selected faction(s) gains a week-long boost to their wealth while the originating faction is reduced by a proportional amount. If the boost were greater than the reduction, it could mean that 'factional alliances' could make mutually beneficial agreements, and that a particularly savvy diplomat could garner support from multiple other factions for a cumulative boost. [Edit: A means to disrupt such supports could be implemented, but IMO leaving it to role-play gives everyone a recent chance to argue why they should be getting that money at the expense of others]

Also, as far as I am aware, the Exigo Syndicate is pretty much cut-off in terms of factional growth, as they seem to last anyone of sufficient reputation to join people.

Cheers,
Kit

[gbbishop]

ctf = cool

[Sparkie]

I like the "King of the Hill" idea, and I think I have an idea to add onto it- when one faction takes an area, NPC's of that faction show up there, including a group commander, and depending on the faction, the encamped force may be neutral to passersby, (perhaps Blackwood and Exigo are kept as neutral to whoever passes by) or they are hostile to all, (perhaps the Banites or some other faction that is considered evil), or are just hostile to high ranking members of certain factions, (like Legionaire's attacking a higher up in the Banites) For example: The Banites see an opening at the Abandonded Viridale camp, so they take it. They leave some soldiers there, including a group commander, who we shall call Scrabbles Morton, to hold the area and destroy all who aren't allied with their cause. When the legion catch wind of this, they decide to take action, by way of sending a strike force comprised of Barron Conectfour Von Smithe, Kerplunk Macguillicutty, Trivial Hursuit, and MacMc Smithingston. The four invade the camp, and defeat the the Banites camped there, with Trivial Hursuit striking the killing blow on Scrabbles. Now, for this Group Commander, maybe the people involved in their defeat get some rep for killing them, or maybe it allows them to take the area. Perhaps both.

[Kitsunestume]

I was under the impression we were looking for non-PVP ways of increasing faction activity without DMs, but just for reference as to the whole capturing idea, there was a fair amount of discussion on similar possibilities here: http://www.sundren.org/forum/showthread.php?t=19400

[Intrepid42]

My main suggestion would be to use the existing mechanics more. The combination of Faction wealth and Personal reputation is a potent way for DM's to show the consequences of actions. I suggest altering these more often.

Capture the flag automatic mechanics would be fun to gather up a group for and do, but might cause issues from an IC perspective. Sure you've grabbed a piece of empty real estate and (presumeably) killed off a group of out-numbered and unsupported enemies, but automated mechanics might leave a group of your own NPC's there to be killed in turn. From a Faction point-of-view you've traded blood for blood over a piece of worthless real estate.

If the real estate has real value, like a farm or workshop, then the issue might then become faction gain involves playing to the mechanics rather than Roleplaying a more realistic capture-and-hold campaign.

I would prefer DM supervision of anything that involves territory or permanent changes in Faction wealth.

Some more automated ideas:

Designated "enemy factions", eg Triumverate vs Necropolis, with bonus rep once per reset for banners from the enemy faction.

A small amount of bonus rep once per reset for PvP subdual/kill for high ranking PC's in "enemy faction". To reduce the exploit risk I would have it apply only to high ranking PC's. These could be hard to get at, so I suspect this would largely be for flavor rather than a day-to-day thing.

A Complicated Idea involving a fair bit of coding and balancing:

Have rare loot drops of items that can be traded in for temporary Faction wealth gain and a bit of personal Faction reputation. The PC would probably pick up an item for another faction which they then can trade. For example, a Legion solider finds a lost crate of Exigo goods, which he can gift or trade to an Exigo PC. Another example is a Cartel member finds a blessed statuette, which he sells to someone who turns out to be a Black Hand member, who then hands it in to his superiors to be desecrated, in exchange for a bit of personal reputation and gold. For IC reasons some PC's might not be able to request stuff in return (eg LG paladins), so this mechanic could be linked to some means of inter-faction assistance.

In the above example, the Exigo PC could be convinced in return to select once per week personal faction assistance to the Triumverate in return, derived from the Exigo PC's own personal faction rep, as someone suggested above. This could boost a "military strength/organisation/supply" statistic for a portion of the Triumverate faction. For balance purposes I would not have automated systems affecting the whole of a faction, but perhaps just the subset the players have influence over (eg the PC-controlled Legion). DM's could refer to this statistic when considering the outcome of player actions during events, and reduce it manually when something happens in-game to represent resources/lives expended. Minimising exploit potential might be a complicated matter, one option being one boost per CD key per week.

[Fezzik]

For the time being, until a member of Exigo gets high enough (Murin and/or Bree?), could we "allow" either Blackwood or dwarf subfaction initiate Exigo members when the highest ranking Exigo member says "Here, can you do this for me?" I'm not sure how easy or difficult that would be though; maybe those could allow members into the subfactions and then a dm could shift them into the Exigo when time permits?

I like the idea of raiding enemy areas, but I suppose we'd have to make a few new areas (can't really raid the city now can you silly Banites? ). I'm not sure "voting" for bonus faction rewards would work... there were a couple of weeks over the holidays that the only factions I saw on were Blackwood/Exigo/Dwarf. Sometimes it's nearly all Banites (when the Paladins aren't around) or all Legion (when Emi glares menacingly at everyone).

[Kitsunestume]

If the real estate has real value, like a farm or workshop, then the issue might then become faction gain involves playing to the mechanics rather than Roleplaying a more realistic capture-and-hold campaign.

I would prefer DM supervision of anything that involves territory or permanent changes in Faction wealth.

I agree that anything permanent should definitely have DM overwatch, but one means of limiting pointless bloodshed could be time-delayed durations. As an example, in my idea for the interfactional support, a character votes one week,and the next week both factions are affected for that week. At the end of the week, wealth levels are returned to normal and then allocated based on that week's round of voting. [edit: I should add that I think an 'aid no-one' vote should be an option, meaning your faction should not get said wealth-penalty for that week]
Capture points could well be on a similar week-by-week scale, and affect faction wealth in a similar manner: whatever group has done the most to benefit the area (ideally not mass-slaughter) gains a boost and possibly easy access to some linked resource of sorts, such as crafting resources, a unique vendor, an NPC or area that gives a minor temporary buff, etc. for as long as they continue to hold it.

Have rare loot drops of items that can be traded in [. . .]

I think this could be a rather effective means of converting those common-enough mass-murder expeditions into useful RP, so long as each item has at least two opposing factions or sub-factions it can be useful to (that makes IC sense: The HoM and Triumvirate may both compete for some magic items, for example, although the benefits may be different).

As for exploitation of statistics, it could simply use the same calculations as Vouching: you need at least so much investiture into the faction for 2 or three points, or you can get a higher status (basically only through DMs at this point, limiting itself) and count for a couple dozen.

[Intrepid42]

I think the Faction wealth/salary system is amazing and fantastic for what it was designed for.

However, it may be less suited for use by itself for faction-vs-faction struggle. Wealth means more to the Cartel than the Triumverate, for example. Money=power, of course, but the Triumverate's power lies more in it's reputation and well-prepared holy warriors than any stocks of gold. The Faction wealth system takes this into account already.

For faction vs faction I suggest using the Faction wealth mechanics, but also other mechanics in addition, as suggested. I personally like the idea of a "military readiness" statistic, however, I suspect access to a unique resource node or shop like Kit suggests would prove popular.

If this sort of territory mechanic is being planned, I would suggest the option to "abandon" the area for PC's above a certain Reputation. I would have a time delay to reduce exploit potential. I will admit my particular bias here, as dwarves tend to be tough as nails but slow to replace combat losses. Holding a zone that is destined to be over-run by an attacking force in the near future with the near-certain death of some poor dwarven NPC's doesn't appeal from an IC perspective. IC I would prefer to either fortify heavily or get what we want and get out.

[bipolar bear]

why not have a faction "trickle" point everytime the xp trickle happens...... i figure a point or 2 every day or so wouldnt go wrong. considering the cost of faction items vs rep points this wouldnt hinder much, but would reward the "tavern drunkards and fireside story tellers".

[Kitsunestume]

Wealth means more to the Cartel than the Triumverate, for example. Money=power, of course, but the Triumverate's power lies more in it's reputation and well-prepared holy warriors than any stocks of gold.
[. . .]
If this sort of territory mechanic is being planned, I would suggest the option to "abandon" the area for PC's above a certain Reputation.[. . .]

Heh, apparently you've not seek some of the 200k plus costs on the upper echelon gear: highest Eboncoin price is 70k or so.
But as you noted, Faction Wealth (as I understand it) counts for more than just pure economic wealth.

My intention on the territory was that it wasn't combat reliant. If you put the work in, next week you get the area and it's bonuses. If during that week you do your stuff and are done, nothing is to stop you from just not putting any effort into maintaining ground-control and can quietly depart to let another group take residence.

In response to Bipolar bear: Trickle XP generally assumes you are doing something to progress your character; sitting and talking almost always will do that. Said role-play need not progress your faction's goals, making it basically that you would gain notoriety in your group for sitting around drinking beer. With the current system, however, other faction members can vouch for you once every in-game day (2 hours), so sitting and RPing WITH another vouching faction member would likely prove more profitable anyhow.

[Edit: It occurs to me that I appear to be dominating the thread. If this is problematic, please note as much]

[gbbishop]

Kit you have valid points and say much of what I would say.

Like the tread that talked of a CTF style area. I just think it would be cool to have a resource area that could change hands at the drop of a hat.

Maybe some thing that is only really valuable to players... Maybe the hill give you trickle Rep while holding it. IDK.

Though I don't like the idea of getting rep for thumbin' bums, it could work.

Here are the big points in my mind:

-Player controlled faction join is awesome
-DMs could award or take away FactionRep more frequently.
-RP posts and forum actions that get folk involved in your faction should be awarded in game. (both xp and rep but more so rep)

[ManUtd4Ever]

Here are the big points in my mind:

-Player controlled faction join is awesome
-DMs could award or take away FactionRep more frequently.
-RP posts and forum actions that get folk involved in your faction should be awarded in game. (both xp and rep but more so rep)

This!

Cheers.