Knowledge lore substitutions

[Fezzik]

Mostly I'm thinking if know:arcana in addition to lore for identifying items but know:nature could be used as a sub for survival.

Here is what I'm thinking:

As is: "I haven't heard any tales of this sword or know the makers mark. It has powerful enchantments; 4th circle, magical keenness and the blessings of torn obviously but we will have to cast an identify spell on it so we know who made it and what it does for sure...." (Low lore high knowledge arcana)

Also possible:" I'm not a woodsman but I understand all the theory; I believe this is troll markings by size and shape. Also you can see that pile of dung. Obviously a humanoid carnivore from the lack of berries you expect and these small bones are fingers. I learned the basics of tracking when I was young but I can't tell you if anything is around....(standing by the cave mouth)". (High knowledge nature low survival with tracking feat)


Some of the knowledge skills are obvious in Dm events and are used but could some of the others be automated to fix things like above?

[Doubtful]

Lore first.

Lore is an amalgimation of the various knowledge skills of DnD, all lumped together for a computer gamey focused chunk. Personally I'd be happy to see lore bugger off and for the lore bonus's for Bards etc to be applied to the knowledge skills instead.
Buuuuuuut... Mechanically I'm not sure the substitution is possible. Shame. RP wise it's all grand though, so thrust your skill uses forward when they're required.

Survival then.

Different kettle of fish. Survival is a skill and it is slightly different to Knowledge:Nature. Probably the best comparison of the two is Know:Nature is what you learn in biology class, Survival is what you learn in the field.

Classroom and theoretical knowledge isn't always directly useful in the field, and field knowledge isn't always that great in the classroom. That said, there is a crossover between the two and in an ideal world that would mean that the skill synergys would be used, in this case meaning a +2 to survival for every point of skill in Know:Nature when you're in a suitable environment.

Introducing skill synergy would be a formidable task, a great one admittedly, but hellish amounts of work if it's mechanically possible.

For RP though, feel free to suggest skill synergies during DM RP even if they aren't mechanically implemented.

[Lugwy]

I've been in a game where the DM ruled that Lore could substitute for Knowledge checks, at the cost of a higher DC (+10-15) to represent that you're going off bits and pieces of general stuff you've read and the odds of having read exactly about that particular topic will be a shot in the dark. Furthermore, you cannot use Lore to roll for Knowledge checks with a base DC of 20 or over, to represent that it's a particularly focused topic and in order to have any inkling of knowledge about it, you'd have to dedicate yourself to that area, shown as points in the appropriate Knowledge skill. Alas, that game didn't make it past character creation, so I didn't get to see how it'd work in the field, but I liked the concept, as it gives Lore some use beyond making Identify obsolete without making the Knowledge skills obsolete as well.

Going off of this, you can also apply related skills in the same manner. Survival check but you have Knowledge: Nature, or vice versa? If you don't mind the higher DC modifier and it's below the acceptable DC for substitution, go for it and good luck. Want to substitute Knowledge: Arcana for a Spellcraft check, but the DC is 20? Well, tough luck; go put some points into Arcana and come back later. And so on.

Just my (soon-to-be-extinct) two cents.

[Kitsunestume]

I've been in a game where the DM ruled that Lore could substitute for Knowledge checks, at the cost of a higher DC (+10-15) to represent that you're going off bits and pieces of general stuff you've read and the odds of having read exactly about that particular topic will be a shot in the dark. Furthermore, you cannot use Lore to roll for Knowledge checks with a base DC of 20 or over, to represent that it's a particularly focused topic and in order to have any inkling of knowledge about it, you'd have to dedicate yourself to that area, shown as points in the appropriate Knowledge skill. Alas, that game didn't make it past character creation, so I didn't get to see how it'd work in the field, but I liked the concept, as it gives Lore some use beyond making Identify obsolete without making the Knowledge skills obsolete as well.

Going off of this, you can also apply related skills in the same manner. Survival check but you have Knowledge: Nature, or vice versa? If you don't mind the higher DC modifier and it's below the acceptable DC for substitution, go for it and good luck. Want to substitute Knowledge: Arcana for a Spellcraft check, but the DC is 20? Well, tough luck; go put some points into Arcana and come back later. And so on.

Just my (soon-to-be-extinct) two cents.

Sounds pretty well thought out to me, and I'ld be pretty happy to use such rules ingame. Synergies would also be nice, either as a standard +2 bonus for five ranks and every 20 ranks thereafter, or simply that you can now use the linked skill as trained.

Introducing skill synergy would be a formidable task, a great one admittedly, but hellish amounts of work if it's mechanically possible.

Might a selection of synergy 'feats' work? Not ones accessible at the character-leveling screen, but when granted, either by script or DM, give the relevant minor bonus?

[Cornuto]

I believe we already have skill synergy implemented
http://www.sundren.org/forum/showthr...t=11784&page=3

[Fezzik]

So there wouldn't be any objection of passing off a scroll to someone that actually has some lore to identify it when your char has none, but has a fair amount of Knowledge:Arcana? Until it gets changed fixed or just generally agreed it's close enough?

[Doubtful]

Well colour me purple and call me rare, I didn't know synergies were in. We're much more awesome than I thought.

[Kitsunestume]

Well colour me purple and call me rare, I didn't know synergies were in. We're much more awesome than I thought.

I'ld prefer a shade of indigo, but otherwise second the motion.

[Thief Of Navarre]

I believe Disguise and slight of hand have synergy with bluff. i.e. bluff adds +2 to disguise for every five ranks and the same with sleight of hand.

Disable Device and Set trap also work the same but I think that was in vanilla NWN2

[Mournas]

Since there are 10 Knowledge skills, I would say if you want to apply a Lore Bonus to Knowledge checks then (Lore Base/10) = Knowledge Skill Bonus. Lore is too broad to cover specifics IMO. Someone with a 10 in a knowledge skill should have a huge advantage over someone with a 20 lore. Or you could do Knowledge skill DC x2 for Lore. So a Knowledge Planes DC 15 check would be DC 30 for Lore or a DC 20 Knowledge check would be a DC 40 for lore. Unless otherwise stated by a DM or your character has had a significant experience with said topic.

I think Lore Shouldn't give a whole lot of bonus to knowledge skills. That's like saying oh I've read all these astrology books and books on history and nature so I should be good at Accounting right?

[thaelis]

Since there are 10 Knowledge skills, I would say if you want to apply a Lore Bonus to Knowledge checks then (Lore Base/10) = Knowledge Skill Bonus. Lore is too broad to cover specifics IMO. Someone with a 10 in a knowledge skill should have a huge advantage over someone with a 20 lore. Or you could do Knowledge skill DC x2 for Lore. So a Knowledge Planes DC 15 check would be DC 30 for Lore or a DC 20 Knowledge check would be a DC 40 for lore. Unless otherwise stated by a DM or your character has had a significant experience with said topic.

I think Lore Shouldn't give a whole lot of bonus to knowledge skills. That's like saying oh I've read all these astrology books and books on history and nature so I should be good at Accounting right?

Agreed to all the above.

Letting people do Lore check at +10 DC kinda seems like weeing on those who spent 100+ skill points into Knowledge skills without the courtesy of calling it rain (I admit they are probably few but I'm sure they're out there :P)

Also, if you are that person with maxed out knowledge skills, you should advertise your services on the trade post as a Sage!

[Lugwy]

Agreed to all the above.

Letting people do Lore check at +10 DC kinda seems like weeing on those who spent 100+ skill points into Knowledge skills without the courtesy of calling it rain (I admit they are probably few but I'm sure they're out there :P)

Excuse the incoming horn-tooting, but this point is why I added the following condition to my previous post.

Furthermore, you cannot use Lore to roll for Knowledge checks with a base DC of 20 or over, to represent that it's a particularly focused topic and in order to have any inkling of knowledge about it, you'd have to dedicate yourself to that area, shown as points in the appropriate Knowledge skill.

[thaelis]

Excuse the incoming horn-tooting, but this point is why I added the following condition to my previous post.

Yeah I didn't read that

With that clause then I couldn't see the Lore substitution being unbalancing. Be kinda like anyone being able to spot traps, but only Rogues being able to spot the really scary traps