"1" = Instafail!

[thaelis]

The DC was 26, that I do know. It was a death spell, I rolled a 1 giving me a fort save of 38.

I really hate the DnD system sometimes! In Pnp we use a house rule that rolling a "1" results in -d10 instead of instant fail.

I just find it slightly ludicrous that a low-DC death spell can kill an epic level Paladin/Fighter if you spam it enough times at them, or an epic level Cleric with Wis 28 can be charmed by spamming Charm Person. Especially for things for which luck is not a factor, such as Fort and Will saves.

Is there any way to change this or is it hardcoded?

[Saulus]

Hardcoded.

[wangxiuming]

I feel you. Supposedly it's so that even the tiniest specks have a shot against high level characters? Or that even high level characters can make mistakes or have a bad day?

It's just super annoying when it happens =X

[Chocolate Radio]

Though, I think it was mentioned at some point that the same rule is taken into effect for skill and Ability checks, via server lore, whereas it doesn't do the equivalent in pen-and-paper (with Critical Success having the same effect). Is that just leftover from previous server editions, or still enforced?

EDIT: For roleplaying-related uses, on the term of skill and Ability rolls.

[Cornuto]

It was a house rule that PL proposed (I wasn't ever a fan of it TBH). I'm cool if it goes away, and I don't think anyone ever enforced it anyway.

http://www.sundren.org/forum/showthread.php?t=4825
http://www.sundren.org/forum/showthread.php?t=10831

[Incognito]

I don't use it on skills

DC 5 will saves on the other hand...

[thaelis]

Hardcoded.

Thats a shame. It would have made those occasional flavour-items that give +2 save vs. Death/Negative energy etc actually useful.

Whilst I'm on the topic of saves though...the traps in Mossdale (last time I was there anyway) all seem to do massive damage but are only Reflex DC 15. Thought that was a bit odd, is that correct?

[Fezzik]

I'm personally all for insta fails on a one. It gives those with next to no chance at least a glimmer to kill high or epics. (Think David and Goliath). If a person can kill someone with a critical hit they should have the same sort if luck if the high level (say a Sune bower sees a rare orchid JUST as you cast that pitiful finger of death -- call a 1 a distraction or just pure blind bad luck-- shissen happens)

[Peridan]

See, I could never really wrap my head around that rationale. Sure, there is a chance of something freakishly silly happening that allows the low level to get a lucky hit in. But that event should have a higher percentage of improbability than a 1 out of 20 provides. And with the way the engine works, it happens all too commonly.

[thaelis]

See, I could never really wrap my head around that rationale. Sure, there is a chance of something freakishly silly happening that allows the low level to get a lucky hit in. But that event should have a higher percentage of improbability than a 1 out of 20 provides. And with the way the engine works, it happens all too commonly.

Agreeed, if only NWN used bell-curve dice rolls...

Melee attacks and Reflex saves I can actually understand the reasoning, as they could conceivably be influenced by environment. A loose paving stone underfoot, a gust of wind blowing your arrow as you shoot etc.

[Doubtful]

I'm so glad it's hardcoded, it's a shame that it's not hardcoded into the skill use system as well.

Some measure of fallibility in skills and/or body/mind should be factored in to prevent characters from becoming dangerously Mary Sueish.

[Snowmane]

For fortitude saves, you can over come this by taking the Steadfast Determination feat. The Slippery Mind feat helps a lot on will saves since you would have to roll 1 twice in a row to fail. But otherwise yeah, you are out of luck.

I never did like the "5% of the time you fail" rule because failures happen all too often. It's too bad there wasn't a system developed in 3rd edition that required confirming a 1 in the same way you have to confirm a critical. A system like that could drop that 5% chance of failure even lower. But as far as NWN2 is concerned it's a hardcoded fact of life we just have to live with. The only real defenses are things like Death Ward, Mind Blank, Freedom of Movement and the like.

[Doubtful]

I've unpacked the laptop early to try and hammer out a better explanation, at least an explanation of the way I see the combat system and spells working to give even lowbies a chance against much tougher foes.

It's important to remember that spells, including the insta-kill ones are all a part of combat - Combat contains a reasonable element of random chance. Let's look at an encounter:

Tim and Suzy are an adventuring pair, together they've fought through the evil minions of the dread meglomaniac, Trevor.

Tim is a fighter, his primary abilities are hitting things, doing damage and hitting more things.

Suzy is a mage, her primary abilities are casting spells, doing damage and buffing the shit out of Tim.

Suzy and Tim come up against their toughest challenge yet a massivly armoured beohmoth named Steve. Steve is wearing much armour, has body dysmorphia and well used gym membership.

Steve's armour is far to much for Tim to handle with his normal (AB) abilities, but he's got luck on his side! That's right, a random chance that he might score a lucky hit. Armed with a longsword Tim's combination of luck and ability means that he has a 2/20 (10%) chance of scoring a lucky hit through that armour that might do some damage. If Tim put in some specialized training he might even have a better chance of scoring a lucky hit, potentially increasing his that chance several times over.

Suzy's exausted most of her spells, but she's been saving Finger of Death just in case she encounters something that might need putting down quickly. Unfortunatly for her Steves body dysmorphia has meant he's put in some serious gym time and has the constitution of a particuarly healthy ox, normally he'd be able to shrug off her spell. Fortunately as with all combat there's an element of luck involved. Perhaps Steve is a little under the weather, perhaps she's just cast that spell with extra panash, perhaps Mystra herself will give that spell a little more grunt, whatever the cause of it there's a slim 1/20 (5%) chance that she'll pull it off and stop that heart. Unlike Tim she can't really train out her luck, bit given the variable nature of the world that little sliver of a chance will remain.

Removing the 5% chance is really a bit of a shit for the caster. After all, magic throwing is their primary skill, shouldn't they always have some chance that it might work? Removing it could (and should) be seen as being as silly as removing the ability of fighters to cause critical hits or (tenuously) removing the rogues sneak attack ability because it's really annoying when they do that to you.

Worse still removing the fail-on-a-1 removes so much of the drama and potency of magic. Magic is the stuff that can raise the dead, lift cities into the air and allow people to tear and manipulate the very fabric of reality. Given our earlier example, without the fail chance a chair leg becomes more effective, because that at least will do something on a natural 20.

[Handsomeman]

I failed on 1 before with my epic level character against a cleric many levels lower than him, who i didnt even percieve as a threat. Sad thing was, it was the first spell he casted. But its stuff like this that makes it fun and unpredictable. Its like that moment in lord of the rings where the guy chops off saurons fingers with a broken sword and won the day. Stuff like this makes victory more rewarding.
What i dont like is when you get hit by some effect so many times, its not a matter of if you fail the save, but rather when you fail a save. Like the time i was on another server when a beholders beam had like several effects attached to it, and they travel in groups. Chances are youre going to die, turn to stone, or paralyze/daze(which also leads to stone or death) sooner or later. Okay, maybe just sooner.

[Fezzik]

Beholder should be scary... they were one of the few things in the first edition that made my skin crawl; I'd rather fight Tiamat than a beholder!