New Characters and Identification Papers

[wangxiuming]

5k is very expensive for a low level character. And if you consider players that are new to the server, even if you gave them a 1 week free pass, unless they played a lot and picked up on sundren's nuances very quickly (i.e. not your casual "I play once or twice a week" person) they would never be able to earn the 5k to upgrade to real papers before the pass expired and they would either have to join the legion faction(if possible) or get out of town.

I'd suggest that these costs be adjusted to 250gp per level so that those of us who have characters that hang out and rp a lot (i.e. rarely fight) won't have to grind as much. And those who are level 20 will then be paying the full 5k amount.

Wholeheartedly agreed! Tiered tax based on level seems more fair, especially since it could easily take a new character 5 or more levels to amass 5k, and that would be at the expense of picking up equipment.

Regarding Yev's implication that the citizen papers expire - is that true? I thought the citizen papers were forever, just the passes expire.

[Poltergeist]

The idea with the papers is that there has always been tax requirements on adventurers, payable every six months. With a flying city and only one point of entry the governmental tax accountants praised Waukeen and worked their magic.

Papers are proof of tax payment, and last for six months from the date of issuance, by default. Legionnaires can create papers for people that expire sooner.

The DM team is currently discussing the future of the ID/Pass system. You can all expect plenty of automated ways to cheat the system, however.

[FoogooFish]

Papers and passes expire based on the date that the issuing party sets. Self-purchased papers can be bought for up to six RL months. Issued papers have a different range of dates.

If I sound a bit ill with what I'm about to write, it's because I'm disappointed at the attitudes of some of my fellow players.

How many of you know about this section of Sundren law? (Last paragraph emphasized by me.)

Regarding Census and Taxes

All households resident to Sundren are expected to report biennially to their local government for the purpose of census after Highharvestide in the month of Eleint (the ninth month of the year) every two years. Taxes in Sundren are collected biannually, once during the season of Greengrass in mid-Tarsakh (the fourth month of the year) and once after the Highharvestide in mid-Eleint. Taxes are determined according to the year's harvest, income, profession, and standard of living of the taxed. The local government is empowered with the duty of adjusting taxes and keeps them up-to-date.
Residents with no set address and travelers are still subject to taxation, even if they are to report to different local governments. In exchange, they enjoy the protection of the law.

[sic]

Consider that "massive" amount (which isn't massive at all) to represent the taxes that everyone is supposed to pay. I am not going to get into a merit-based discussion on taxes, because folks can't agree on a system IRL - much less a game.

What irks me the most is that instead of finding roleplay solutions for these "problems," there has been little more than OOC complaining done. How many folks have contacted DMs to use their Gather Information skills to find out who might be able to issue passes? How many letters to NPCs or PCs have been written asking for a pass sponsorship in exchange for a service? How many folks have said, "Hey, the Legion seem to get passes; maybe if I ask to join, I can get a pass!" The only ways I know people are looking to obtain passes are the underhanded methods, but at least that is being roleplayed. Get creative, folks, instead of waiting for everything desired to fall into your lap.

The City of Sundren just went into the sky as a last-ditch, desperate maneuver to avoid complete and utter annihilation of its people by an overwhelming enemy force. Let me repeat that in case the magnitude of it isn't made clear:
The City of Sundren just went into the sky as a last-ditch, desperate maneuver to avoid complete and utter annihilation of its people by an overwhelming enemy force.

Roleplay this key fact. Understand that characters now live in a topsy-turvy world. Things that were "normal" are no longer normal - including access to the city. Everything that has happened is IC, so please use all this anti-change energy that seems to be dominating the forums towards finding IC solutions.

[Memnoch1962]

But for how much the papers cost, those that want them, aren't we encouraging grinding?

Was just stating MY opinion. I believe that once everything is in place all will be well. And its surprising that I've seen no role play where characters aren't trying to bluff or buy their way into the city. If you think about it this is a good opportunity for some really good RP.

[Yevelian]

Regarding Yev's implication that the citizen papers expire - is that true? I thought the citizen papers were forever, just the passes expire.

I could be wrong thinking on it now, I may have resident papers. As I said, the whole thing got me testy and I haven't been back this week. I know they list an expiration date.

[thaelis]

I think the Pass system isn't the main problem. The Passes make perfect IC sense, and I agree there is no point complaining about it OOC'ly.

Under normal circumstances no one would die from being barred from the city. The problem is the ridiculous spawns (which are being fixed) and the lack of stores on the ground...meaning new players can't even buy gear to help them survive (which I hope is also going to be fixed?).

Once more stores are added to the ground, going to the City will be more like a luxury than a necessity. Having said that, 5000gp seems a bit steep, for something that expires :O Non-grinding players might take a RL 6 months to save that

[bipolar bear]

Im not trying to complain, rather just hop into the discussion here.
where i think that a tax system is a great idea i do have to agree the price is rather high. for me, im a player that may get 5 to 6 hrs of playtime a week. and being on the ground the areas that do reward with gold and xp are so high in risk, or simply just expensive in healing without the ability to restock supplies makes the city a very unreachable place. at least for the forseeable future.
a per level approach might be a great idea. as of to this date i have not seen any of the city, and i do not wish to make a brand new char just to see the sights. or have my higher level guys just stealing all the low level areas treasure (not i would do that anyway, but you may find that happening).

anyhow just a thought. from a very time limited player.

[Doubtful]

It's not a complaint if it's got a helpful suggestion in it


We're discussing different ways of implementing a multi-tier and multi-budget approach to the city-pass situation. Something that would allow characters to enter the city on a budget basis without compromising the feel of paranoia and mistrust that we're aiming for. Several of the points raised so far in this thread are pivitol in this approach; we really do listen to suggestions!

As far as the danger on the ground with regard to the low level slaughtering Privateers; we've made several changes and fixes that are now waiting on an update to go live, but I'm afraid you'll just need to hold on a little longer until Saulus returns from his Polish trip.

[bipolar bear]

although i just thought that the current situation might be a great opertunity to rp general banditry. might be interesting.

[Saulus]

No one should be afraid to express their opinion. People get banned for being a dick in the way they do it. We dont get paid to take shit, which is why we have low tolerance for it.
If people dont like that, there wouldnt be a Sundren.

We would have had more updates to correct the new issues lately,but im on vacation so thats slowed. There will be many rapid corrections to these issues as i return and push out more updates. Players do not see all the dev work going into the next patch to improve things based on feedback, but that doesnt mean it isnt happening.

[Nascent_Legion]

Edit: This post is completely off topic of the original post and is not constructive to the conversation.

-DM Cat

[Catastrophe]

Alright, since my post about staying on topic has essentially been ignored, I'm going to close this thread. We are currently in the process of getting passes to people, and we will talk into considering all what has been said.