Dungeon Balancing

[Fezzik]

Check your journal. You have to talk to the centurio AFTER the guy in the bath or you'll miss the step

[Nethaxion]

I had done so, but no matter - when I logged in earlier, my journal had updated to reflect that I had, indeed, slain the nasty old girl. I had no problem turning it in, so it's all good. Thanks for the tip!

[Bloodriki]

The red mobs in the Mirakus Mines II area could use some work. They spawn in twos and have such high DR/AC that unless you've magical augmentations on your weapons, you're litterally chipping small pieces of rock away. (1's, 2's, and 3's) They've +20 AB and improved knockdown which they chain quite effectively when a double spawn occurs.

[thaelis]

Dungeon
Shar's Abaddon

Party
1x 18th level Ranger (Archery focus)

Feedback
Snuck past the outside creatures as I figured they'd be 0xp at my level, snuck around a bit til I found a room of a big bunch of critters, one of whom was blue and decided to have a shot. Got in a good 3-4 rounds of shooting before they closed with me. Their damage is pretty impressive, especially the blue-named guy and their 50% miss chance means it takes a long time to kill them (I'm no slouch in melee buy my AC isn't great @ only 31).
While I was fighting a 2nd group including another blue-name appeared, I guess they heard from the adjacent corridor and ran over. The second blue-name (a Shadowdancer?) was even tougher than the first, almost impossible to hit. Ended up burning through 26 healing potions before I put them all down.
In short, I personally found it a lot tougher than Argyle or Mossdale and only got 2xp for greens, 8xp for blues.

[GodBeastX]

Dungeon
Shar's Abaddon

Party
1x 18th level Ranger (Archery focus)

Feedback
Snuck past the outside creatures as I figured they'd be 0xp at my level, snuck around a bit til I found a room of a big bunch of critters, one of whom was blue and decided to have a shot. Got in a good 3-4 rounds of shooting before they closed with me. Their damage is pretty impressive, especially the blue-named guy and their 50% miss chance means it takes a long time to kill them (I'm no slouch in melee buy my AC isn't great @ only 31).
While I was fighting a 2nd group including another blue-name appeared, I guess they heard from the adjacent corridor and ran over. The second blue-name (a Shadowdancer?) was even tougher than the first, almost impossible to hit. Ended up burning through 26 healing potions before I put them all down.
In short, I personally found it a lot tougher than Argyle or Mossdale and only got 2xp for greens, 8xp for blues.

I havn't looked into that place at all.

[thaelis]

I havn't looked into that place at all.

Yeah, I realise this isn't something from a recent update, it's just the first time I've been strong enough to make it through the desolate path and explore it so thought I'd leave some feedback!

I tried to go there when I was level 12 but the nether elementals at the cave door killed me.

[Aniril_Telin]

Dungeon
Shar's Abaddon

Party
1x 18th level Ranger (Archery focus)

Feedback
Snuck past the outside creatures as I figured they'd be 0xp at my level, snuck around a bit til I found a room of a big bunch of critters, one of whom was blue and decided to have a shot. Got in a good 3-4 rounds of shooting before they closed with me. Their damage is pretty impressive, especially the blue-named guy and their 50% miss chance means it takes a long time to kill them (I'm no slouch in melee buy my AC isn't great @ only 31).
While I was fighting a 2nd group including another blue-name appeared, I guess they heard from the adjacent corridor and ran over. The second blue-name (a Shadowdancer?) was even tougher than the first, almost impossible to hit. Ended up burning through 26 healing potions before I put them all down.
In short, I personally found it a lot tougher than Argyle or Mossdale and only got 2xp for greens, 8xp for blues.

Dungeon
Shar's Abaddon

Party
Noril De'Nor (lvl 1 sorc/ 7 Ranger/ 1 Arcane Archer) Rith Stalward Defender /Fighter also level 9 but don't recall the spread average maintained ac was 31 and 35 respectively.

Feedback
I ran through this a couple of times while rebuilding Noril at level 8-9 with his tank stalward defender buddy at the same level, it was manageable as the abbadon goes not going to tell how, it's a secret of the abbadon and Noril is proud of being one of the few who knows how to fight those things... ask him. A little more difficult than the original edition of the abbadon but fun and rewarding at those levels if you know the tricks of the scary dark hole in the ground. If you don't well you'll probably die because Shar is mean and doesn't play fair. We died at the very end when stuff started respawning on us but with a more full group should be very doable. Note: Archers without tanks die a lot don't leave the woods without yours.

Loot drops were primarily gold and minor alchemy components, nothing unique of note.

[Tamha]

Dungeon
Shar's Abaddon

Party
Noril De'Nor (lvl 1 sorc/ 7 Ranger/ 1 Arcane Archer) Rith Stalward Defender /Fighter also level 9 but don't recall the spread average maintained ac was 31 and 35 respectively.

Feedback
I ran through this a couple of times while rebuilding Noril at level 8-9 with his tank stalward defender buddy at the same level, it was manageable as the abbadon goes not going to tell how, it's a secret of the abbadon and Noril is proud of being one of the few who knows how to fight those things... ask him. A little more difficult than the original edition of the abbadon but fun and rewarding at those levels if you know the tricks of the scary dark hole in the ground. If you don't well you'll probably die because Shar is mean and doesn't play fair. We died at the very end when stuff started respawning on us but with a more full group should be very doable. Note: Archers without tanks die a lot don't leave the woods without yours.

Loot drops were primarily gold and minor alchemy components, nothing unique of note.

Rith was 7 Fighter/2 Stalwart. The Elder Nether Elementals (blues at the very end) have pretty strong (perhaps too strong) fear effects. The first two times we tried their groups killed us because we were frightened for at least the entire length of time it took to kill us (a lot less time for Noril than for Rith), and there are two of these buggers, one at the end of each side. This would be at least 2 full minutes, possibly longer, of being frightened while no less than 5 mobs were attacking us. Given that it is a no-cast area, it is extremely difficult to deal with.

[Laurk]

Is the Whurst ruines the hardest dungeon on the server? Because if so those dwarves need more attack and damage & some serious backup. When we go through there, Abby may as well bring a book to read. People "let" me heal them to be nice, but could easily survive without a healer. Infact, Michael willingly goes without stoneskin just so he'll get hurt for Abby (nice of him). The boss fight can be difficult, but I like a dungeon where my people are suffering horribly the whole time. Even in Whurst, I wind up blowing all my Greater Restorations and Heal spells on mass cure since people rarley loose more than a small amount of HP at a time. I don't even bother with mass heal.

I would love to see at least one over-the-top place where its so difficult, even high level groups have a very good chance of dying. We need some seriously hard hitters who can bring the pain to our paladin super tanks.

For balance in general; I love downright deadly monsters with low AC and HP. That way support and blaster mages/clerics can play a more crucial role and the tank NEEDS healers, archers and general support to back them up and thin the ranks/keep him alive for when those monsters get into melee range.

That approach to monster balancing always results in a more diverse and balanced party structure across PWs. When monsters have low AB & damage, but tons of AC and HP, you wind up with lots of tanks and mages/clerics who buff and tank. Combats not as intense and more predictable too. Just my two pence.

[Kitsunestume]

Heh.
When I pointed you over here, I was hoping you might read a few posts

It would help a bit more to know your party composition(s) and tactics. I've gone through Wurest before and either facerolled the place with level 18s or been wiped in the first level with a suboptimal trio of epics.
Protip: a party of rogues suck there, probably even with Abby for support.

If you have more details that could be used to help determine why your particular experience was the difficulty it was, it would probably be a good idea.

Cheers,
Kit

[wangxiuming]

I think this is more a result of people building and gearing themselves around not needing a dedicated healer. They are in short supply (abby is the only one I even know of), so its impractical to go dungeon running on the server and expect to have a dedicated healer ready and available.

Ive heard the Abyss is a deadly excursion though. That is an epic level area, if i remember correctly.

[OnyxTigress]

I don't believe there have been spawns implemented for the Abyss area just yet.

And eventually there will also be areas for Icewind Dale when that comes in that I think will be fairly tough.

[Laurk]

Well in my experiance, when monsters do crazy damage but die easy, it opens a lot of nitches to be filled.

The types of PCs who will arise and be seen most often reflect the server's monster balancing. On Sundren, monsters have tons of HP and pretty high AC, but tend to do little damage (with some exceptions). That means players will tend to build the most effective PCs to combat that sort of monster.. which is this case is a high AC tank. Thats why you don't even SEE barbarians. Ive seen talk about balancing barbarians to be more "tankish" by letting them absorb more damage or something... but to me that's not hte right way to fix the problem. Make monsters with low AC and low HP and those barbarians who deal massive damage quick will kill their opponents before they even get hit much. But tanks will "also" be effective.

Basically you take the very same dynamic of level 1-5 where combat is unpredictable and dangerous. There's a reason so many of us love low level D&D. Because you can one shot monsters.. but some of them can one shot you too! A group of level 3 PCs depend on a good balance because archers and mages can actually kill part of an encounter of orcs off before the fighter is reached. The barbarian may actually one shot his foes and the tank can live long enough to widdle them down, but in all cases, you'll probably need a cleric to patch you up. Party dynamics! Its what made D&D great!

If you balance the monsters this way, it brings out the beauty of party dynamics, and I promsie you you "will" see those missing classes start to show up as people strive to fill nitches. There's only one dedicated healer here because dedicated healers aren't needed. They would be needed if you balance monsters so that combat is closer to the way is is when you're low level. Unpredictable, fast and dangerous.

[Kitsunestume]

Ive heard the Abyss is a deadly excursion though. That is an epic level area, if i remember correctly.

I did recall this, but I was also under the impression is is DM-locked specifically so we don't end up with people taking pleasure-strolls through the nether-realms.

[Fuzziebunny]

There are plenty of healers around. Healing is not a problem at all from what I have seen. Really, dungeon's don't seem to be made for power builds. Honestly, I have the weakest level 20 in the game and I can solo most places if I put armor on.