PVP and turning Hostile

[Fezzik]

I'd like to make a suggestion that, if possible, might help clear up some annoyingness with PVP for me .

When someone turns you hostile, if possible, could your (and their party) turn hostile on one another? It would solve a lot of problems when you are searching for a person in a group to fire/smack/etc them and you can't find them... It would solve a lot of searching problems and a few rounds of potential loss if the situation is hectic.

My two cents!

[Saulus]

As far as I'm aware due to the hardcoded nature of a lot of those mechanics something like this is not possible.

[Fezzik]

DOH! It would be super handy though.

[Fezzik]

Could we add something to the "rules" to make sure everyone in the party(s) have an opportunity to turn someone hostile before PvP ensues? There is a lot of "XXX dislikes you" followed by WHAM!, and not much in between

[Saulus]

I do think it would be a good rule to add, if one of our editors can amend that entry.

[ManUtd4Ever]

Could we add something to the "rules" to make sure everyone in the party(s) have an opportunity to turn someone hostile before PvP ensues? There is a lot of "XXX dislikes you" followed by WHAM!, and not much in between

Imagine a group of characters is terrorizing a faction area, cutting NPC members to shreds. At this point the group has most likely cut down four to five NPC or more.

((IAW PvP rules any opposing player waits for all of the NPC to be finished off.))

Then a lone player - of the same faction - materializes and toggles the lead character hostile. After doing so he engages. No dialog, no banter. Just cold steel swung in retaliation for the loss of his or her faction mates. The fog of battle being what it is... most of trailing characters have to recognize there is a new threat and react to it. This costs them precious seconds and gives the out numbered player the upper hand for a moment.

Once the rest of the group recognizes what is happening, they too toggle the sole player hostile and engage him or her with a vengence.

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Speed and violence of action decides tactical engagements. Waiting for a single player to toggle an entire group hostile, seems to me to be a major tactical disadvantage.

I will abide by any rule changes... but wanted to provide an opinion first.

Cheers!

[Saulus]

It would more be a recommended courtesy in my eyes, not something you will get banned for but the DMs would consider it uncooperative behaviour.

[ManUtd4Ever]

DMs would consider it uncooperative behaviour.

Fair enough.

Cheers!

[Doubtful]

Unsportsmanlike conduct would be my opinion!

By only toggling a single person in a group hostile and attacking them and not their compatriots stinks of exploiting a mechanic to your own advantage, allowing you to get the jump on one individual while their compatriots must hunt through menus for your name and toggle you hostile.

Much like attacking in an NPC filled / built up area you are effectively ignoring the reactions of the party, or at least causing a delay to their reactions by exploiting the 'no attack without toggling hostile' rules.

If you're attacking a member of a group, it is defiantly good practice to set the whole group hostile.


Edit:

Then a lone player - of the same faction - materializes and toggles the lead character hostile. After doing so he engages. No dialog, no banter. Just cold steel swung in retaliation for the loss of his or her faction mates. The fog of battle being what it is... most of trailing characters have to recognize there is a new threat and react to it. This costs them precious seconds and gives the out numbered player the upper hand for a moment.

Once the rest of the group recognizes what is happening, they too toggle the sole player hostile and engage him or her with a vengence.

This just doesn't hold water as a justification - The attacking player has clearly had the menu open and scrolled through to find the player he wishes to attack and toggled them hostile. Then he's initiated combat - His victim can react to the new threat and deal with it appropriately, his team mates cannot. Justifying an OOC mechanic (hostile toggle) with an in game 'They have to assess the situation' thought process just doesn't hold water. The victims compatriots have to see the situation and react, yes - But you've denied them any reaction time by shielding yourself with that OOC mechanic, forcing their players to leave ingame reactions behind and go menuwards.

More like - Dave, Colin and Tom, three trained marines, go walking though a park late at night, suddenly a crazed hobo leaps out and starts hacking at Daves face with a machette. Appalled and horrified Colin and Tom stop dead for a minute or two as they pull out their smartphones and look for the 'Help a mate' app. Colin knows the menu and can attack after just a minute, while Tom gets a bit confused about which menu he needs and can't help for several minutes.

Stupid.

If you are attacking a member of a group, you are effectively attacking the whole group. Toggle them hostile. Do not exploit or hide behind OOC mechanics.

[Memnoch1962]

Unsportsmanlike conduct would be my opinion!

By only toggling a single person in a group hostile and attacking them and not their compatriots stinks of exploiting a mechanic to your own advantage, allowing you to get the jump on one individual while their compatriots must hunt through menus for your name and toggle you hostile.

Much like attacking in an NPC filled / built up area you are effectively ignoring the reactions of the party, or at least causing a delay to their reactions by exploiting the 'no attack without toggling hostile' rules.

If you're attacking a member of a group, it is defiantly good practice to set the whole group hostile.


Edit:



This just doesn't hold water as a justification - The attacking player has clearly had the menu open and scrolled through to find the player he wishes to attack and toggled them hostile. Then he's initiated combat - His victim can react to the new threat and deal with it appropriately, his team mates cannot. Justifying an OOC mechanic (hostile toggle) with an in game 'They have to assess the situation' thought process just doesn't hold water. The victims compatriots have to see the situation and react, yes - But you've denied them any reaction time by shielding yourself with that OOC mechanic, forcing their players to leave ingame reactions behind and go menuwards.

More like - Dave, Colin and Tom, three trained marines, go walking though a park late at night, suddenly a crazed hobo leaps out and starts hacking at Daves face with a machette. Appalled and horrified Colin and Tom stop dead for a minute or two as they pull out their smartphones and look for the 'Help a mate' app. Colin knows the menu and can attack after just a minute, while Tom gets a bit confused about which menu he needs and can't help for several minutes.

Stupidj

If you are attacking a member of a group, you are effectively attacking the whole group. Toggle them hostile. Do not exploit or hide behind OOC mechanics.

I totally agree. Well said Doubtful.

[Talleyman99]

We all need to remember that being set hostile is OOC info, and not to be acted upon until the treat shows up. So there should be no problem with setting the party hostile because they should only be on the same guard they where when attacking npc's. I only bring this up because well people enjoy waiting to the last second to hostile then bam. If you think there could be a conflict at all set them hostile. If there is not a fight it's just as easy to set them back.

[Yevelian]

This just doesn't hold water as a justification - The attacking player has clearly had the menu open and scrolled through to find the player he wishes to attack and toggled them hostile.

Actually, this isn't always true. I have seen people in faction ground, and used the right click menu on them then going to Sundren, to hostile them. Me, thinking they are alone, then all the sudden someone else runs down the hill behind them. I try to hostile everyone in a group when that situation rises, but I have been surprised myself this way before, in which case I try to call a time out until everyone is hostile.

With the menu listing of whos in the area disabled, going straight off the player list can cause some fog of war. Not excusing the bad form, but I can understand the confusion.

[Doubtful]

Yeah, there can be situations where you don't notice all the members of a group, so that can cause issues, but I suspect those kind of situations are rare.

Calling a timeout to toggle hostile or just sending a 'Pause' message to any DM on so they can pause the game for a moment is a good idea, though unfortunately calling a timeout won't effect any summoned critters or npcs.

Tallyman is very correct as well - Hostile toggling is an utterly OOC act, don't factor it into an IC decision. This includes self-buffing if toggled, that's a smiting offense.

The team are looking at other ways of working around this, so look for another announcement in the future!

[Twisted-Indoctrine]

The team are looking at other ways of working around this, so look for another announcement in the future!

"With the Cataclysm the world of warcr- I mean, second sundering comes increased tension for everyone. Factions and individuals are all on edge, to signify this everyone will be hostile 24/7 without the option to turn it off."



I'd just like to see people with cleave at work in that environment. Might have to dig out an old FB just so I can be a danger to myself and society.

[Doubtful]

Haha, I'd love it to be that way.