New Factions?

[Kirin]

Are there any plans for new factions in the future, perhaps in the Second Sundering? Some character archetypes (chaotic good heroes, for example) don't have a faction they can really identify with. The Triad is far too rigid, and religious, for such characters.

Though there are no Harpers in Sundren, something sort of like them would be great to have. Mostly-heroic people who fight evil by any means necessary, including things lawful types would not agree with.

I'd love to see a splinter faction of the Moonstars in Sundren, for example, which were basically more badass version of the Harpers: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moonstars

[Snowmane]

I believe the current effort is actually to reduce the number of factions. That said, you can always role-play your character as part of some Forgotten realms faction and just forgo the faction stores.

Poltergeist actually made my character Minael a member of the Fellowship of the Forgotten Flower, and though that story line hasn't really developed I have that as his faction on his character bio. Not having access to faction stores is annoying but not crucial.

[Peridan]

I find that the only limiting factor in fitting a PC into an existing faction is the unwillingness to try something 'out there'.

I actually think the Triumvirate would welcome those characters who sought to achieve justice against tyranny through any means necessary, since it's goals are (while still respecting mortal authority to an extent) divinely given. A hero who seeks the betterment of goodly races would be certainly invited into their fold, as long as they follow the dogma. Heck, there's even have a class designed for the Batman fans out there (Shadowbane Stalker).

A faction isn't a circular hole for the square peg that your PC may be. Use a little creative reasoning, and I'm certain that practically any character can fit into any faction under reasonable circumstances.

(I mean, your druid of Silvanus likely isn't going to fit in the Eboncoin, but the concept is the same.)

[wangxiuming]

I could be wrong, but I thought the Corps De Grace was the faction for people who are goodly, but who aren't lawful / religious enough for the Legion / Triumvirate?

[Kirin]

I find that the only limiting factor in fitting a PC into an existing faction is the unwillingness to try something 'out there'.

I actually think the Triumvirate would welcome those characters who sought to achieve justice against tyranny through any means necessary, since it's goals are (while still respecting mortal authority to an extent) divinely given. A hero who seeks the betterment of goodly races would be certainly invited into their fold, as long as they follow the dogma. Heck, there's even have a class designed for the Batman fans out there (Shadowbane Stalker).

A faction isn't a circular hole for the square peg that your PC may be. Use a little creative reasoning, and I'm certain that practically any character can fit into any faction under reasonable circumstances.

(I mean, your druid of Silvanus likely isn't going to fit in the Eboncoin, but the concept is the same.)

I see what you're trying to say, and appreciate the suggestions, but I'm going to have to disagree with you.

Let's use the Moonstars history as an example: They will lie, cheat, and steal to further the cause of the greater good. They use the Faerun equivalent of "enhanced interrogation techniques" (morally-questionable mind-reading). They will openly negotiate with known evils if they think they can gain the upper hand: The whole reason they split from the Harpers in the first place was because Blackstaff forged a deal with Fzoul Chembryl, a name you might have heard of. (He's the leader of the Zhentarim).

Would the Triumverate approve of any of that, under any circumstances? I really don't believe that they would. Their Gods would yank divine powers away from people so fast it'd make their heads spin!

(Again the Moonstars are just an example; a different, entirely Sundren-specific organization might be better. But there's certainly a gap missing where a "by any means necessary" faction should be, and the Triumvirate would not always be on their side.)

The point is, not all "goodies" are created equal. The gap between Lawful Good and Chaotic Good can be very wide.

[Peridan]

Would the Triumverate approve of any of that, under any circumstances? I really don't believe that they would. Their Gods would yank divine powers away from people so fast it'd make their head spin!

Thus, the dogma requirements

What you're talking about are paladins, clerics who have taken oaths, and in general the Lawful Good types which seem to be the most common within the Triumvirate.

But what about a NG fighter? He follows Torm, seeks to do good in the land through any means necessary, and willingly deals with evil people if he thinks it'll serve the greater cause of justice. Sure, he can't get those evil doers now. But he's patient, and he knows that he's serving the greater cause.

Now, telling lies, cheating, and stealing are not good acts. They're evil ones, as so judged by the great big alignment system in the sky. Doesn't matter if it's for a greater good, because they're willingly committing evil acts. The Moonstars sound more like a neutral organization to me, honestly. Sure the intentions are good, but the actions as you describe them are evil.

[Kirin]

Thus, the dogma requirements

What you're talking about are paladins, clerics who have taken oaths, and in general the Lawful Good types which seem to be the most common within the Triumvirate.

But what about a NG fighter? He follows Torm, seeks to do good in the land through any means necessary, and willingly deals with evil people if he thinks it'll serve the greater cause of justice. Sure, he can't get those evil doers now. But he's patient, and he knows that he's serving the greater cause.

Now, telling lies, cheating, and stealing are not good acts. They're evil ones, as so judged by the great big alignment system in the sky. Doesn't matter if it's for a greater good, because they're willingly committing evil acts. The Moonstars sound more like a neutral organization to me, honestly. Sure the intentions are good, but the actions as you describe them are evil.

Some of their actions are evil. There's no disputing that, and they don't even dispute that. But their stated, and followed philisophical goal is the same as the Harpers: to undermine the forces of evil in the service of goodly peoples and races.

Outside of specific classes like Paladins, alignments are not rigid, static things that are followed to the letter 100% of the time. Alignments can bounce around a lot: a "good" person might do an bad thing in order to save a lot of lives, and will rightly get evil points when they do so, but it does not change who they are or their goals in helping people. Their intent may not change how alignment is assigned, but it does change how you roleplay your character.

I really don't want this to become an alignment debate, but getting evil points doesn't mean you suddenly have to start acting "evil". It does not change your character's goals or motivations unless you want it to. Alignments points are assigned for actions...not the other way around.

Players of such a faction should expect potential alignment shifts; that doesn't change the organization's opinion that they are doing a good thing overall.

[Cornuto]

Helm called, he said 'enhanced interrogation' is fine by him.

I'm all for adding factions where it makes sense & they're needed -- in my mind, harpers and harper-wannabes might work. I'm also for paring down a lot of the useless and redundant factions we have.

[roguethree]

I actually think the Triumvirate would welcome those characters who sought to achieve justice against tyranny through any means necessary,

Nope. They're not the "any means necessary" sort of people.

I could be wrong, but I thought the Corps De Grace was the faction for people who are goodly, but who aren't lawful / religious enough for the Legion / Triumvirate?

It's the faction for people who want to protect farmland. They're Sestra's militia, and that's it.

But what about a NG fighter? He follows Torm, seeks to do good in the land through any means necessary, and willingly deals with evil people if he thinks it'll serve the greater cause of justice. Sure, he can't get those evil doers now. But he's patient, and he knows that he's serving the greater cause.

I would submit that he's not a very good Tormite. Of course he's not a paladin, but a dogma's a dogma, and his standing in the organization could be negatively affected if word of his tolerance of the wicked gets out. Also, no one's shocked by a Tormite belonging to the Triumvirate.

[Kirin]

Nope. They're not the "any means necessary" sort of people.

More than just that, an organization like what I'm talking about and the Triumvirate might openly come to blows in rare circumstances. If a Tormite is trying to stop a Moonstar from doing a immoral thing, and the Moonstar believes the Tormite is standing in the way of what the Moonstar believes must be done to save lives?

They would not try to kill each other of course, because they are both on the same "side" even though they both believe the methods of the other are flawed. But one of them would get knocked out before all is said and done.

Evil fights evil a lot. And yes, occasionally, good fights good (or good/neutral-ish). Personal conflict is great, and it breeds great RP.

[Peridan]

Fair enough, Torm probably isn't the best example. But I think that if players allow them to, factions can be more than what their most obvious definitions allow, and that they have a far greater degree of flexibility than most people seem to think.

[Standur]

Helm called, he said 'enhanced interrogation' is fine by him.

It's all about upholding the law! Get'er done.

[ManUtd4Ever]

It's the faction for people who want to protect farmland. They're Sestra's militia, and that's it.

This didn't apply to any of my characters who served in the CdG. Joining the CdG is the only way to become affiliated with Arbiter's Alliance, unless you are a devotee of Helm or the Holy Three. AA serves to fight against evil. It is a pretty simple choice if you are LG.

Cheers!

[Standur]

Oh and not to spoil a perfectly good discussion but if I wanted to be Chaotic Good there is that really broad Exigo faction. Lots of people buy and sell stuff and are free to behave however they want. I could be a Noble in the Exigo faction for instance. Pip, pip and so on. Or perhaps I am a Harper and being a merchant is my cover story. Creativty is the spice of life.

[Doubtful]

Or the Veritas. They're probably the faction that can cover the broadest spectrum of character types, amongst their ranks I've seen things from paladins through to CE nutjobs and loads in between.

They're not that popular with players who can't cope with the loss of a high level grinding area though.