Restricting Clerics?

[Silas North]

Ugh... I say nix it then. Maybe it's because I don't pnp, but there's a few occassions when the original rulebooks need to be tossed out the window. This is one of them.

Of course don't get me started on Wish and Miracle...

[Tamha]

You cannot drink (and thus can’t use potions)

This would certainly be a restriction that may make users think twice about using it that is not implemented in NwN2.

[Satoshi]

Not to mention the physical limiters of such an increase in weight in sensitive areas (bridges, water, etc).

[Cornuto]

all spells or attacks that affect your physiology

One would assume this includes healing spells since this spell basically turns you into a stone golem, and healing spells don't work on constructs.

[Aniril_Telin]

Begrudgingly, yes agreed. Golems cannot be healed, only repaired, so yeah, those things should definitely limit the overuse of the spells. Stonebody is suddenly less cool if you cannot heal... ever. There is no real need to gimp the class if things can just be made to work the way they should.

Edit: It should be noted, they would still be able to cast healing spells on others and group healings, it simply would not effect them, which may be slightly more challenging to fix in the scripting. Bandaging as well would not be effective on either Iron body or Stonebody, nor would the 10 minute rest while in these forms to replenish HP from Survival/character levels

To get back on topic, I do not believe Clerics should be restricted but instead the extremely powerful spells such as these be made to operate within their intended limitations.

[Satoshi]

Look at your Sundren. Now, look back at me. Now look back at your Sundren. Back to me. Eberron is not your Sundren, it's flipping you off. Now look at the Spells added. Back to Sundren. Where's the Repair Damage line of spells? It's not there, because Warforged are setting-specific. Now I'm a Warforged. Fortification is everywhere! I'm riding a unicorn.

I now want to Powerthirst Sundren with Murin's Battlebrew.

[ManUtd4Ever]

1. The only thing that makes clerics OP is stonebody (while this is not true with FS's)

Stonebody is not Über because it provides 10/DR Adamantine. If this were the case then Stoneskin, Greater Stoneskin, Ironbody and Premonition would all be classified as Über/OP because they all provide at least DR10/Adamantine.

The reason my 20th Cleric casts Stonebody on himself is because it thus immunes him to blindness, critical hits, ability score damage, deafness, disease, electricity, poison, and stunning... and he takes only half damage from acid and fire. This same cleric casts Stoneskin on his companions to provide the DR 10/Adamantine.

Stoneskin: DR 10/adamantine. The spell absorbs 10 points of melee damage per caster level, to a maximum of 100, before collapsing. [Target: Anyone/touch]

Stonebody: DR 10/adamantine and a +4 STR/ -4 DEX. You move at half speed. You have a 50% arcane spell failure chance and a -8 armor check penalty. You are also immune to blindness, critical hits, ability score damage, deafness, disease, electricity, poison, and stunning. You take only half damage from acid and fire of all kinds.[Target: Caster]

Iron Body: DR 15/adamantine, immunity to all spells or attacks that affect physiology or respiration, and only take half damage from fire and acid of all kinds. +6 STR/ -6 DEX, a 50% reduction in speed, a 50% arcane spell failure chance, and a -8 armor check penalty. [Target: Caster]

Greater Stoneskin: DR 20/adamantine. The spell absorbs 10 points of damage per caster level, to a maximum of 150, before fading [Target: Anyone/touch]

Premonition: DR 30/adamantine; the spell absorbs 10 points of melee damage per caster level before collapsing. [Target: Caster]

What makes Flavoured Souls powerful is that they receive 10/not-adamantine DR and can cast Stonebody to get 10/adamantine DR. Doesn't matter how you slice it, you block 10 extra damage.

Favored Soul receives DR 10/alchemical silver if lawful, or 10/cold iron if chaotic. A neutrally aligned Favored Soul can choose either type.

[thaelis]

*Turns on the Barry Manilow*

Awwww yeeeeaaahhhh

Coffee....ensuing laughter...coffee coming out of nose. Thanks GD.

Also, I will now be hiding in AFK whenever I see you login.

[Dustiness]

This would certainly be a restriction that may make users think twice about using it that is not implemented in NwN2.

Pretty sure it isn't possible to code ._.

[Twisted-Indoctrine]

Pretty sure it isn't possible to code ._.

Might be possible to work around it by making the character immune to all forms of healing while the spell is in effect.

[ThePaganKing]

Honestly,

I think that instead of going down the road to nerf or restrict a class that a lot of people have (clerics), we should concentrate on how to make other classes more play-able.

How about more available gear for melee types, such as amulets that provide more that 16 magic resistance (it could even be say 20 or 25 magic resistance for 10 minutes twice per day). Or, maybe spells that provide some form of resistance to mind spells or something else.

Right now, going into one of the high level dungeons and a melee guy and no buffs means certain death unless you are lucky with your rolls. Of course, some spells you don't get any saves and you are a goner anyway.

Again, can we concentrate on how to make other classes exciting, exotic, survivable, instead of going down the path of making clerics useless?

[Kitsunestume]

Not that I would disagree with change, but. . .

How about more available gear for melee types, such as amulets that provide more that 16 magic resistance (it could even be say 20 or 25 magic resistance for 10 minutes twice per day). Or, maybe spells that provide some form of resistance to mind spells or something else.

. . .This would require a change in the campaign-type (currently low-magic, even if we have a surplus of casters). . .

Right now, going into one of the high level dungeons and a melee guy and no buffs means certain death unless you are lucky with your rolls. Of course, some spells you don't get any saves and you are a goner anyway.

. . .And making dungeons soloable somewhat defeats the purpose of a role-playing game.

Cheers,
Kit

[Thief Of Navarre]

Honestly,

I think that instead of going down the road to nerf or restrict a class that a lot of people have (clerics), we should concentrate on how to make other classes more play-able.

How about more available gear for melee types, such as amulets that provide more that 16 magic resistance (it could even be say 20 or 25 magic resistance for 10 minutes twice per day). Or, maybe spells that provide some form of resistance to mind spells or something else.

Right now, going into one of the high level dungeons and a melee guy and no buffs means certain death unless you are lucky with your rolls. Of course, some spells you don't get any saves and you are a goner anyway.

Again, can we concentrate on how to make other classes exciting, exotic, survivable, instead of going down the path of making clerics useless?

Lol, clerics useless. That literally WILL be the day!

[Twisted-Indoctrine]

I don't think "nerfing" stonebody to work as intended will render clerics useless by any means, no more so than any other class is anyway. I'm against restricting them, but there has to be adjustments somewhere, they shouldn't rival the gods they worship.

[[DM] Grinning Death]

Honestly,

I think that instead of going down the road to nerf or restrict a class that a lot of people have (clerics), we should concentrate on how to make other classes more play-able.

We've recently opened up several classes to melee types as well as instituted stricter resting rules in order to bring the power curve that spell casters tend to skew. In addition, many cleric spells have been changed in order to prevent 'I-win' spells (Word of faith, etc.). We are well on our way to making the server hit that sweet spot in mechanics.

And Kit is correct, the end game will likely result in people needing parties in order to hit some of the more dangerous dungeons, and will not be able to solo exclusively no matter what class they may be.

Clerics will likely not be restricted despite whatever residual 'superpower' they may retain after the changes implemented, and items changing would require an entire reworking of all the shops, crafting, drops, and isn't likely to happen either.