Restricting Clerics?

[ThePaganKing]

Coolio Cornuto, I knew you guys would!

[ThePaganKing]

One suggestion to implement if it isn't that difficult. Could you implement a feat or series of feats that are engineer or fortify type? What I mean is that someone could take a feat that lets a person with the feat be able to use the natural defensive attributes to create a temporary rest area, maybe once a day and then maybe greater ability for twice a day? Just a thought.

Similar to the areas in dungeons that say, "this area could be fortified for rest."

[Chiangtao]

I don't like the idea of overnight full rests occurring in hostile areas. Sort of against the spirit of the new system. Same sort of idea in the tent thread.

[Thief Of Navarre]

I totally disagree. Clerics arnt lay preachers, they should be actively seeking to bend people's minds towards their ethos.

They are literally champions of faith. Not an easy title to come by restricted or not! I think you should not be able to start as a cleric because being one shows a level of competence and faith that the ordinary chaplain doesnt have. You'd imagine most clerics are militant worshippers, akin to knights till they receive their true calling imo.


*edit* As for restricting them, I personally wouldn't. Cleric seems like a prestige class more than any other base class though in my opinion.

[Memnoch1962]

Ok, got a question. Favored Souls and Vampires are both restricted now. Which is more powerful? On the thread topic: dont restrict clerics. I dont really believe they are overpowered. I understand that some believe they are, I'd like to know why. And dont make it an issue of "I had my character killed by one" I've had characters killed by just about everything Sundren has to offer, I just strive to make my character better and find new ways to defeat whatever it was that killed me.

[Doubtful]

I think you should not be able to start as a cleric because being one shows a level of competence and faith that the ordinary chaplain doesnt have.

*edit* As for restricting them, I personally wouldn't. Cleric seems like a prestige class more than any other base class though in my opinion.

Personally I'd prefer to see all of the casting classes and some of the specialist melee classes set out that way - You begin as an aspirant mage/knight/cleric and need to progress into the role fully. Some succeed, some fail and need to chose other paths. That was definitely the best thing about the WHFRP system, the careers were a great idea and were great for adding a real background to a character or campaign.

Still, we got wot we got. Just have to make do with the piss poor class system on offer.

Edit:
Long story short - Clerics should be kept as an open class, people who fail to deal with their dogma and faith ICly should suffer the consequences ICly.
Clerics should only get locked if all the casters are getting locked. Which they aren't.

[Thief Of Navarre]

Personally I'd prefer to see all of the casting classes and some of the specialist melee classes set out that way - You begin as an aspirant mage/knight/cleric and need to progress into the role fully. Some succeed, some fail and need to chose other paths. That was definitely the best thing about the WHFRP system, the careers were a great idea and were great for adding a real background to a character or campaign.

Still, we got wot we got. Just have to make do with the piss poor class system on offer.

Edit:
Long story short - Clerics should be kept as an open class, people who fail to deal with their dogma and faith ICly should suffer the consequences ICly.
Clerics should only get locked if all the casters are getting locked. Which they aren't.

^ That pretty much. If I ever make another proper caster Ill probably have him refrain from using his powers until he is part of an organised church and he has some degree of backstory that I have 'actually' roleplayed. Im not sure where I lay with bards tbh... they are a whole different kettle of herbal tea.

[Memnoch1962]

Doubtful, Is it possible to make it that a character does not come in to Sundren as 3rd level, and instead spends 1st and 2nd level doing just what you said?

[Doubtful]

Doubtful, Is it possible to make it that a character does not come in to Sundren as 3rd level, and instead spends 1st and 2nd level doing just what you said?

We could de-level a character if it was requested, but it wouldn't be a good idea as everything is balanced towards beginning at level 3.

Lowering the starting level for everyone from 3 to 1 would be time intensive as it would require new areas for adventuring, not to mention it would increase the level spread.

[Dustiness]

What makes Flavoured Souls powerful is that they receive 10/not-adamantine DR and can cast Stonebody to get 10/adamantine DR. Doesn't matter how you slice it, you block 10 extra damage. That's less meaningful in PvM because monsters don't see you have Stonebody and switch to their adamantine weapon, but in PvP it means your DR is impossible to negate because one type always compensates for the other.
Couple that with the benefits Flavoured Souls already get in the form of weapon usage feats, free hastes and energy resists and you're looking very good next to a Cleric.

The one advantage Clerics do have over Flavoured Souls is that they receive Turn Undead as a class feature, while Flavoured Souls have to grab other class levels to get it. Thing is, when they do have it they make better use of it than Clerics, because their spells per day is tied to charisma. You don't need spell DCs if you're going to buff up and melee, so you can throw everything into charisma.

[Maevan2]

What makes Flavoured Souls powerful is that they receive 10/not-adamantine DR and can cast Stonebody to get 10/adamantine DR.

I can see quite a few things why people call FS powerfull or not suitable as an unrestricted class. But 10DR on level 20 are the last thing i would worry about. It is still a long way to level 20 on Sundren. And if somebody gets there within a week then the problem is not FS but the playstyle.

[Silas North]

Actually cleric (or any turning undead class) levels are taken into account as well when using turn undead. More specifically, they affect the maximum HD you can turn. Just taking one level of cleric alone and relying upon your CHA bonus won't cut it unless you're satisfied turning only the weakest undead.

I do agree with the DR matter though. I know 20 lvls is a bit much to put in, but.... I honestly believe NOTHING should stop adamantine damage, or at least nothing granting more than 5 to 6 DR. And Stone Body... pfft... Where did that spell even come from?! I say ditch it and reduce FS DR to 5/silver or cold iron. There's a few other things I'd do to cleric's and FS's but I wouldn't want to go overboard and make them suck (like some other servers have done). Personally, I think they are more just versatile and idiot-proof than 'overpowered'.

In matters of RP, I agree that clerics can freely be either holy knights, preachers, or both. Still, I don't think even the more militant clerics are COMPLETELY excused from the occasional preaching and would certainly be favored in some way by their god and/or superiors for the occasional conversion or bringing more people to mass.

[Cornuto]

Where did that spell even come from?

Player's guide to Faerun.

[Silas North]

That one's nothing like the one in the game though. Hell, THAT version's not so bad at all.

[Cornuto]

You missed the first sentence.
(I agree that its a ridiculous spell to give to clerics who don't suffer at all from the Arcane Spell Failure that balances out Iron Body)

Iron Body
Transmutation
Level: Earth 8, Sor/Wiz 8
Components: V, S, M/DF
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: 1 min./level (D)
This spell transforms your body into living iron, which grants you several powerful resistances and abilities.

You gain damage reduction 15/adamantine. You are immune to blindness, critical hits, ability score damage, deafness, disease, drowning, electricity, poison, stunning, and all spells or attacks that affect your physiology or respiration, because you have no physiology or respiration while this spell is in effect. You take only half damage from acid and fire of all kinds. However, you also become vulnerable to all special attacks that affect iron golems.

You gain a +6 enhancement bonus to your Strength score, but you take a -6 penalty to Dexterity as well (to a minimum Dexterity score of 1), and your speed is reduced to half normal. You have an arcane spell failure chance of 50% and a -8 armor check penalty, just as if you were clad in full plate armor. You cannot drink (and thus can’t use potions) or play wind instruments.

Your unarmed attacks deal damage equal to a club sized for you (1d4 for Small characters or 1d6 for Medium characters), and you are considered armed when making unarmed attacks.

Your weight increases by a factor of ten, causing you to sink in water like a stone. However, you could survive the crushing pressure and lack of air at the bottom of the ocean—at least until the spell duration expires.

Arcane Material Component
A small piece of iron that was once part of either an iron golem, a hero’s armor, or a war machine.