Spell Suggestions

[Satoshi]

A wizard has 4 spell slots per level at 20th level. A specialist wizard has 5. At lower levels than 20, this is further accented by far fewer spells. Exceedingly high base intelligence help with this slightly, giving the highest possible generalist an additional two first, second, third and an additional fourth, fifth, six, and seventh level spell. Since spell slot and intelligence enhancement items are 'removed' when polymorphed, they are most useful in a support role where you don't have to be polymorphed (even though that's still your most effective spells-expended-to-damage/time, as well as the only way you can stay useful/not invisible in an area your group's level).

Wizards aren't needed to make anything happen: you can craft an adamantine weapon, get an enchanter to boost it to +3-4 with the current system, and buy potions of greater heroism. Or, you can be Lauan and have access to items that make the fighter effective and be the most powerful character on the server that can't heal themselves. I stand by my opinion that fixing the magic item imbalance will do more for the server balance than all of this pointless, much more time-consuming changes that are proposed every other month.

I'm not against adding more options for spellcasters, but I would go so far as to say that with so many spells that are currently unused/pointless adding more situational spells that may or may not be used and bring other wizards (I haven't seen too many) closer to the point of game engine failure I don't see it as worthwhile as fixing what we have. And I never agree with flat out removing standard options.

tl;dr - Arcane Scholars are the only wizards who can fully prepare all of the necessary buffs they need on Sundren, let alone a party needs, due to the ability to metamagic the necessary spells into higher-level slots. On a side note: give the cast-point origin object for the dispelling traps See Invisibility/True Seeing and chuckle to yourself for being clever.

[Lothoir]

I see no reason to remove spells ....

.....


On a side note: adding more spells only compounds issues because as soon as you get a certain number of spells in your spellbook, every time you transition the entire PW crashes.

Well, I can think of one reason...

[Satoshi]

If that's actually a reason to you, then let's remove every class that has a spellbook so we don't have to worry about crashes.

[Lothoir]

And if too many spells is a real reason not to add more, why add any spells at all to the game? In fact, adding any content at all introduces the potential for crashes, so let's just play the original campaign all day. I can employ logical fallacies in my arguments too!

The spells I suggested for removal are ridiculous and completely unnecessary. IGMS in particular is gamebreaking in any PvP matchup unless you are immune to it. It's great that you have one of the old Magic 5/- items, so do I. How many others do? Disintegrate may very well have the greatest damage potential but it still requires a failed Fort save to do that damage, something you conveniently left out from your response.

Honestly, I could see keeping all of the spells I suggested for removal in, except for IGMS. That spell is absurd and disgusting.

[Satoshi]

I was being as facetious with my uncharacteristic single sentence response as you were with your first response paragraph. There is nothing wrong with Isaac's Greater/Lesser Missile Storm in or out of PVP because it has this awesome distribution effect that makes it less potent the more potential targets there are by distributing the damage equally among targets automatically whether the caster likes it or not. You could cast a Summon Monster I, and half of the damage of a Greater Missile Storm disappears into literal thin air because there's no kill like overkill. That's on top of being subject to spell resistance and/or magic damage resistance, which makes it a situational spell that - unless you are a sorcerer, you likely don't even have it prepared for the day unless you know you're going to MAKE a situation where it's useful. I've prepared the spell twice in three months, and that was specifically to kill Farseer Maladus with two castings.

I don't see any reason why it should be removed since it does fill a specific role - automatic damage against target(s) without spell resistance without a need for a melee/ranged touch or a save DC. It's a higher rank magic missile. Disintegrate is also a situational spell - you use it on creatures with low fortitude saves, such as undead or against other casters because it bypasses Shadow Shield and Death Ward. Avasculate is a situational 10-ish foot ranged touch attack that will half a target's current HP at the cost of putting you at the RNG god's mercy for getting so close to whatever is dangerous enough to require one.

I would like to see Teleports and Anchors. I would like to see instanced planes that spells directly interact with. I would like a game engine that doesn't arbitrarily limit my spellbook potential. I'm not against adding more to the game, contrary to how you took my snark, but I am against removing options because amahgawd itz so opeeez becuz i has no allies bro.

tl;dr - Don't remove spells that are good at what they do in situational and ideal circumstances because being good at being situationally prepared is what Arcane Spellcasters do. Except Arcane Scholar Sorcerers, of course.

[Shedboy]

An excellent appraisal of the spells Loithor. A lot of work. Be interesting to know if removal of some spells messes with the crafting system?

I think a simple lvl 1 shield spell could be incorportated as a counter to all the missile storms spells. Basically the spell is like the machine gunn bigger brother to magic missile. there isnt that much more special about it apart from the volume.

Broach of shielding could be available from regular vendours.

[Root]

Magic is more powerful on a server than it should be.
>
Majority of server begin playing casters.
>
Majority of server therefore band against any suggestions to nerf casters.
>
Vicious cycle.

SUCH IS LIFE IN NWN.

[Kirin]

Could just limit people to a maximum of five or six buff spells. Casting any more drops the first one off(exclude AE buffs like auras and bard abilities, since you don't really choose those). That would be more akin to PnP, where you don't really have a chance to stack a dozen things on yourself in combat.

It just seems to me you're looking at this from the wrong angle. Casters are supposed to have bursts of offensive power much greater than that of a physical class. What they should not be is walking tanks. Buff-stacking is what breaks NWN.

[Shedboy]

Magic is more powerful on a server than it should be.
>
Majority of server begin playing casters.
>
Majority of server therefore band against any suggestions to nerf casters.
>
Vicious cycle.

SUCH IS LIFE IN NWN.

lol, That IS funny, the guy writing the suggestion plays a major mage.

[Thief Of Navarre]

I see no reason to remove spells when creating magic completion items with charges or uses per day, feat replication items, and proper magic weapons will make 'mundane' classes more effective sustained characters. I'm not sure if any of you have paid any attention at all, but a rogue or a weapon master with normal, spell-enhanced weapons does more damage in one round than Eirimil does with a Maximized Disintegrate (which is the single strongest spell in the game). They can already do as much damage as my wizard can in one round, what is a wizard good for once his spell run out? Why are we considering a rest system that will (if implimented) make my wizard a complete waste of space half-way through a dungeon run while a Weaponmaster, Rogue, Frenzied Berserker, etc. is capable of doing what my best spells do every round, without rest, 3-5 times?

Yes but when a wizard can shut down said melee character in a single round it doesnt really matter how much DPS the character is doing ~ Hes still going to die!

[Satoshi]

1.) Giving non-spellcasting classes access to a simple magical item that emulates Freedom of Movement nullified Bigsby. A simple magic item that emulates Mind Blank nullifies Hold/Dominate spells. If a Weapon Master or Rogue were to have both of these, sure he may not have the damage resistance of another who has Ring of Major Elemental Resistance, but he will cut through pretty much any spellcaster anywhere, ever.

2.) A scroll of Spell Mantle nullifies any spell that is cast.

3.) Wizards/Sorcerers are supposed to disable, control, confuse, or dispatch crowds.

4.) This is a roleplaying server, not an action server. PvP is not as big a balancing factor as environment. Even so, a wizard or Sorceror is genuinely far less effective past the first three rounds or so than a fighter or rogue when everyone has level-appropriate magic items.

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Why is everyone willing to submit ideas about 'balance' changes while not simply recognizing that magic items are the factor, not game mechanics?

[Shedboy]

No one forces a PC to use that spell. So maybe peer group pressure (or one's own self sense of dignity) could be used to "remove it from the game". so perhaps the balance issue really rests with a persons own ego requirements.

alternatively if everyone want to be completely fair and on the subject of magical items

Wand of Equity
description: Activate on Target PVP opponent. A percentile die is rolled. IF you roll under 40 you die. If you roll between 41 & 80, then you die. If you roll between 81-100 you both die.

All levels can use this wand so they don't feel excluded. Furthermore, after elimination the PC wakes up, they return feeling invigorated and have powerful feelings of comraderie and affiliation. And a rekindled passion to take up a new hobby

[Thief Of Navarre]

No one forces a PC to use that spell. So maybe peer group pressure (or one's own self sense of dignity) could be used to "remove it from the game". so perhaps the balance issue really rests with a persons own ego requirements.

alternatively if everyone want to be completely fair and on the subject of magical items

Wand of Equity
description: Activate on Target PVP opponent. A percentile die is rolled. IF you roll under 40 you die. If you roll between 41 & 80, then you die. If you roll between 81-100 you both die.

All levels can use this wand so they don't feel excluded. Furthermore, after elimination the PC wakes up, they return feeling invigorated and have powerful feelings of comraderie and affiliation. And a rekindled passion to take up a new hobby

So how quickly can this be implemented?

[Mournas]

I'm not sure if you all play PnP, but magic makes cities float ... magic is over powered it always has been. It was even more over powered in 2nd edition because save throws worked differently. There are consequences to being a powerful magic wielder as there are for being a brutal bad ass with a sword. Also Sundren is not a low magic server, it is just not a Monte Hall everyone running around with +5 vorpal swords of bend over now please.

Lothir you suggest these changes but use these very spells all in combination. If you're so against some of them then why use them yourself?

[[DM] Grinning Death]

Lothir you suggest these changes but use these very spells all in combination. If you're so against some of them then why use them yourself?

He suggested them because he's trying to work through the current system to change things. If he decided to stop using the spells (and it's quite a few) he would gimp his character OOC'ly. There's no good reason his mage can't cast a missile storm, so why should he invent one?

I appreciate the time he took to write everything down, link it all, and state his suggestion. However, unless we suddenly get a mad increase in developers, his suggestions are unlikely to take place.