Just an idea, so please don't kill me

[crizzan]

I've read a number of posts (mainly by GBX, but seconded by many) that there's character inflation (Too many high level characters, not enough mid to low levels) on this server, making the developers work extra hard buffing up the town guards, etc.

There's a simple fix for that, but one some people wil hate because it affects their long-term characters:

When a character gains enough XP to gain the next level beyond the server cap, retire them.

This forces players to do one of three things:
1. Stop playing that character and make a new one.
2. Play that character only in ways that do not give XP.
3. Run around screaming and moaning that their character should be an exception because of his/her/its impact on the world. (This one is very easy... If your character has so much importance to the world, the developers should just make it into an NPC to hold whatever position. Then, you can rememeber that was your character every time you see that character doing that job. Unfortunately, you will no longer be able to influence that character....)

As a bone, you could allow each retired character to create a protege with some restrictions: The protege needs to be a different class and may be given only one item (+3 or below) by the player that spawned them....

(This encourages RP adaptability and discourages everyone from spawning a Mystic Theurge --although you can't at third level-- or similar ultra-powerful mage type.)

[BedlamX]

Kinda already have this in place. You just don't get quite the bonuses for a new toon by retiring an old one at or above lvl 20. You also don't get crap for xp after lvl 20. I think there are a couple areas that give combat xp, but they are so dangerous, only teh best equipped or built characters venture there without a good-sized party. Only other way to get xp is from DM events. And the chances of getting said DM event when you are lvl 20 and everyone else on the server is lvl 10 is pretty slim.

Also, most people I see playing lately are playing lower-to-mid level toons. Mostly new players, but a lot of old players with new toons. I've been playing a while now and have one level 20 (that I virtually never play anymore...poor Ursus hasn't left the Enclave steps in months :P) and the rest range from 3 (who hasn't been played at all) to 14 or 15. Several of them have caps at or near the 18-19 range, but they just aren't good at soloing...and I really get bored soloing anyway.

[crizzan]

But I've encountered a lot of characters at or above level 15 when I've been playing. Although they are not level 20, they are high enough that they are looking for demons and gods to kill.... (slight exaggeration) But there are enough of them that they sometimes cause problems for the folks in development, from what I've read...

Trying to help out the team, for what it's worth.

Side note: See your signature. Was Army for twenty years. (on and off) There are still some idiots that believe friendly fire is nice... Don't think we'll ever educate them all.

[BedlamX]

They are probably still out there. But most of the characters I have seen last few times I was on were in the 7-10 range. I've been playing my lvl 9 Deep Gnome Invisible Blade (that will never see 20 with the +3 ECL :P ) so I could run with them.

I only log my lvl 20 on when a DM needs a Thayan Knight for some plot or event. Other than that, he sits in teh vault.

[crizzan]

Having a (or several) areas that require mid to high level characters to party up to face those is a very good idea. That could raise the level cap to any limit.

Of course, another way to deal with mid to high level characters rampaging out of control (taking on the entire city watch and killing them, blasting a city to smithereens, etc.) is a signifigant one time smiting. Or may be two, depending.... High level wizards out to destroy a city where someone insulted them would hate getting hit with a blast of forgetfulness combined with godly dispel that not only dispels all their spells, but makes them forget everything... or a high level cleric would definitely not like facing a godly dispel coupled with a pilgrimage of faith that requires him/her to regain his/her god's favor without any spells.... I could think of severalways that any character that got out of control so outrageously could be dealt with... Of course, the application of godly powers would also right any wrongs, so the character would also see that he/she had accomplished nothing but lost much power. If a character did not learn and did it again, a PK spell would end that....

The areas that should be protected, the city guards and towns, still need either an application of godly power or raising of levels of the guard far beyond reality. Let's face it, how many cities or towns could afford to hire even one level fifteen for an extended period? There is a reason most guardsmen and such are lower level. Do you realize what taxes would have to be like to support such a force? How would you like to pay three times the real value of a weapon or armor because double its value goes to pay the town watch? Of course, this is not an issue for areas that host high level paladins, wizards, and clerics.... They would have a vested interest in preserving their town.

[Shedboy]

a question...how many high level characters are the upper echelons of the factions / rulership of sundren etc.

I believe at high levels most characters are either "semi retired" or face the daunting task of empire building (or thwarting other high powers from it in some for or another. That's where the clash comes with other powers (inc PC's). A big game of chess really.

A large focus on resource gathering, politics, intrigue & espionage , setting up networks, administration, bureaucracy, managing human resources, mentoring, researching, foiling assassins etc.

Such are the rewards of success.

I like the idea of negotiated retirement. The PC becomes in between a PC and an NPC (and could be perma added to an area or to the dm object database) and is used to help further a dm plot etc. Of course the dm could still run high level adventures.

I think it would be cool seeing my epic level character as a npc and interacting with it with my lowbie.

Alternatively, sufficiently motivated characters could seek to become exarchs to a god by embarking on a near impossible task that involves help / skills from other PC's - mundane things like an item forged from the sentiment of a premenstral Tarrasque. WTF???

Chances are the dm's are probably all on top of this stuff anyway.

I like the idea of perks for a retired character - maybe negotiated class / race like RPof the month as once over incentive.

[Vaelek]

I like the idea of perks for a retired character - maybe negotiated class / race like RPof the month as once over incentive.

No.
Absolutely not.

Getting to level 20 is not difficult, it's just time consuming.
Nor is it evidence of even half decent RP.

In general, having a level 20 character is more like having a super defender for your faction if anything bad goes down.
DM events aren't always hack n slash, and therefor aren't always necessary to be a precise level to fight a certain subtype of baddies. By the time you hit 20, you'll hopefully have been in enough of those midlevel hack n slash events that you won't want to touch another one with that character.

The problems we were having in the past with people playing unsatisfied level 20s is really just that - a problem of the past.
There aren't enough around, and even if there were, there're just as many lower level unsatisfied toons right now while the server gradually picks back up again.


Also, for those of you who would like to level a character to 20 just to become the Exarch of whichever deity..
You're going to have to bribe either Saulus or GBX to come back for quite some time, so worry about that before plotting your deification.

[Dragor]

No.
Absolutely not.

Getting to level 20 is not difficult, it's just time consuming.
Nor is it evidence of even half decent RP.

I couldnt agree more, with myself being a prime example. I lvl'd Seb to 20 while learning HOW to RP and the end result was a very good party buffer with little to no RP related skills at any usefull level. That being said I dont want my char "negotiated into retirement" even if I would get something out of it. I put too much time into him to want to give him up.

Besides they already allow for char retirements if you want to RETIRE your chars when they reach lvl 20 but the point is to create a story with your char NOT lvl them up to 20 alot of people dont go YAY I'm done when they get the char to 20.

[Lothoir]

Getting to level 20 is not difficult, it's just time consuming.
Nor is it evidence of even half decent RP.

All of my level 20's are best rp.

*resumes training of Sundren's woodland creatures to storm the vampire mansion.*

*completes planning of the search and rescue mission for Private Porkers*

There are plenty of things for level 20's to do, from Banite panty raids to Level 21 Archmagi of Mundus droppin' phat rhymes.

[crizzan]

Sounds like you folks have a good handle on it. Guess I read some older posts and saw a problem that has been resolved or, as they usually do, resolved itself when savvy players looked around and said "What do we really want to do here?"

I wonder if the DMs and such still have such high level guards and so on in the towns? Any idea what that's costing us (taxwise)? I shudder to think of the expense of such things....

[Biohazard89]

Well Take my Main character Brunus. hes lvl 17 at the moment its taken him what possibly three maybe four Years to reach that lvl. but its because i Absolutly Detest Grinding and were i siting next to a player that were Grinding i would bitch slap his ass so hard his grand kids would feel it. ( Jokeing) no Being lvl 20+ doesnt neccessarily mean you HAVE to retire your character i mean i party alot with low lvls even though they get no XP from they are happy so just get the RP out of it.

Also i dont find it boreing to put other players to work for instance i am currently trying to get a Player Guild up and running setting up static Quests on a mission board the Social group chat and trying to get people to take the initiative themselves ( still working hard on that though hehe).

I even pay them from Brunus own pockets even if its just symbolic payment its still payment.

SO theres ALOT of things to do when your reaching the EPic lvls. but if Fighting is all you get thrilled over then yes you should make a new toon.

If not then its always fun to be the wise retired Adventuerer that Occasianlly rushes in and saves the day hehe.

Just my 2 cents anyway

Cheers

[Root]

So it's considered bad that there are demigods chilling about?

Maybe....Lower the level cap? :3

Mid-level funtimes ahead. Anything in DnD gets silly past level 15 anyway.

Alternatively there's the idea to restrict people at certain points until roleplay has been done, same as getting a restricted PrC. If you want to level above level 10, a DM needs to bop you with a wand following a character request.

Of course, that means a lot more mechanic-based character requests and a lot less fun RP based ones.

[Doubtful]

The level range in NWN2 is vastly different to the level range in a PnP game - probably by a factor of 2:1, maybe more.

It's like money, when converting PnP costs to IG costs you need to add a couple of extra 00's to even approach balance.

Lowering the level cap won't happen, so don't bother with that as a topic.

[Root]

Well, what actually -is- the level cap?

I'd be tempted off the bat to say 20, but we have epic-level characters. So is it 25? 30?

[Vaelek]

The cap for experience you can gain on your own is level 20, and therefor commonly considered the level cap.

Epic levels are given by DMs to long standing characters with relevance to a specific faction or just that many damn event rewards under their belt.
Very few people make it to 21+.
The only ones I know of now, infact, are Clive and Dain - The two ultra opposites of the Triad and Black Hand.

It seems to take roughly a year or so of active play with a very involved character to earn 21, and so far I believe only one has made it to 22.

They're not deities, even quasi-deities, as both have proven they can still be pummeled with relative ease by the wrong opponent(s).

Without GBX around to enact his apparent want for epic level adventures, I can't see any new 21 characters emerging, and certainly not anything beyond that.