New potential word in the Northtionary: Buff-slots

[Silas North]

I oddly find myself curious as to what others think about this idea. I was told this idea by a friend, who said it was on another server. I later discovered said server is not the only one that employs this idea and many seem to love it.

Basically, it's to set a limit as to how many buffs a character can place upon themselves or have placed upon them via another character. It seems simple enough (though I don't know how difficult something like this would be to program).

It also makes magic more tactical. Do you use up all your 'buff-slots' on long term spells or leave a buff-slot or two open for those potent 6 sec/level spells?

As to how many buff-slots are best to make available, I'm not sure about that. Would it be best to make it determined by class and/or level? Would certain buffs take up more buff-slots than others? And if this were implimented, what would have to be changed elsewhere?

Thoughts?

[TakenByTheStormX]

They had this on another server. People hated it. Sure, it'll help make things like FS and clerics a little less OP, but all in all they can cast a few good buffs and still be just as epic.

[Silas North]

We must have heard different things then. I've seen this generally well-recieved.

Ah well... Maybe it just needs adjusting.

[RolandVII]

in all drunken honesty yes yes i know one should not drink and post but hear me out!

low magic world

also in real PnP theres something called positive energy overload or something similiar in which if you heal a person PAST his hp by double he explods with good energies =D quite awesome actually!

[Spacedog]

I played on the server in question. I thought it was a great system, and went a long way to making casters have to put some thought into their spells. The problem, of course, is such a major overhaul to how casting works would throw balance all out of whack entirely. Every single combat area over a certain level would have to be rebalanced to the understanding that people aren't entirely buffed. It would be a lot of work.

[gbbishop]

I think Buffmongers (new word for the northtionary) find out the error of there ways when a DM pops in on them, and enforces the fact that it really does take 8 hours to rest.

But I guess I am not opposed to more responsible use of spell casting... I guess I just kinda hope people do so because it is good roleplay not because there is a coded limitation.

[Lydyn]

I'm against it, if for the simple reason that it makes no role-playing sense. Unless we have Mystra limiting the among of persistent magic on a person, there's no reason magic would act in this manner when it hasn't before in PnP or any D&D setting.

[Kaeldorn]

Rebalancing of encounters is not really an issue. If it needs to be done after a change to the way buffs work, we can do it. That's already been established 'behind the scenes'.

I think, however, that this solution just won't cut it. As TakenByTheStorm said, the clerics and favoured souls only need a select few buffs for their steamroll-mode. A set limit of 4 or 5 buffs would hamper them very little. Having to rate buffs based on effectiveness and applying different amounts of buff slots for each of them would be a difficult thing to get right, as there are also big differences regarding how much each buff scales with caster levels. Besides that it is likely that a lot of (OOC) discussion about what buffs people should or shouldn't get would be going on during adventures, along with the math to make optimal use of their buff slots. Needless to say, that would be quite boring.

Not saying it can't work, but it sounds like too much hassle.

[Silas North]

I'm against it, if for the simple reason that it makes no role-playing sense. Unless we have Mystra limiting the among of persistent magic on a person, there's no reason magic would act in this manner when it hasn't before in PnP or any D&D setting.

PnP also states that Stoneskin costs 250g of diamond dust to cast and that clerics can only pray for their spells during certain cycles of the day. Certain things don't translate well to games and are best adjusted accordingly.

I understand what you mean Kael, but actually I believe if you were to crunch the numbers, you might be surprised. The cleric/EK/bard/etc would have to consider whether it's best to go on the offensive entirely or devote some buffs to saves and/or AC. Plus, certain buffs could take up 2 buff-slots as opposed to just 1. I think I'll try to come up with an example in due time.

As for the planning being boring... Well, I cannot deny that it WOULD be longer than usual to plan things out. Some people may indeed be put off by that. I have to confess I didn't think about that part lol

[Subal]

I already cant stand waiting to get everyone buffed taking 20 min, add any longer to actually having to plan that shit and i'll kill someone, fair warning !

[Lydyn]

PnP also states that Stoneskin costs 250g of diamond dust to cast and that clerics can only pray for their spells during certain cycles of the day. Certain things don't translate well to games and are best adjusted accordingly.

... but casting all available spells does translate well for this game. It did here and it did for NwN1. I stand by my argument.

[Root]

Dosen't really change that currently, casting is 'Lol looks at my magics' rather than taken with any kind of magnitude, sheerly because it's a five-second shoelace-tying away from being completely refilled.

[MelancholyWinds]

You have to remember, few games if any are made with hardcore roleplayers in mind who want some realism (As far as lore goes, like spell components, etc.)

Think as a casual gamer whos never played neverwinter before, would you want to mess with a spellcasting system that involves an INTENSE amount of micromanaging? Probably not.

Now, what about people new to roleplaying on nwn? They're going from a "Semi" complicated (But not for most who are used to nwn) spell system that with a little practices is relatively easy to master, is fairly flexible, already balanced, and while it may involve a small amount of micromanaging, it isn't a massed fiasco of overflowing your inventory with specific spell componenets, or planning out every single excursion be it CvC, CvE, Roleplay Spells, etc scrupulously in the hopes that you'll plan each spell just right to either save money, or fit within your allotted buff limit, where's the fun in that?

You're suddenly limiting spellcasting classes to the small group of players willing to tolerate the micromanaging or intense, borderline OCD planning involved.


Now you could take a more moderate approach like Myths of Atalan and include a bar that when you exceed it, random effects occur, you take dmg, or (Insert consequence)

But that will just be overlooked as negligeable. You can work around it and powerbuff to your hearts content.

Honestly.... If it's not broke, you probably shouldn't mess with it unless you're absolutely, possitively certain you can improve it without causing a fucktastrophe. So far, noone has made any huge improvements. There's been a few nifty "cookies" tossed in, but nothing substantial enough to cause someone to look and say "Hey, that's a better spell system then the original"


Also, I have an apple, and it's effing delicious.

[Urithrand]

My only worry with this is the same concern that I always have when one of these discussions breaks out: Wizards.

While the clerics and FSs and SSs on the server are being levelled with their melee counterparts, bringing them down to a level where they're starting to be less OP, we're further gimping the poor wizard, whose only capability to survive depends on those spells.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, all those divine casters who can wander round in their full plate, sure they'll be pissed when their buffs are gone, but they can still survive. The wizard? Toast.