Prestige class idea.

[Dragor]

Something like this would go far adding it in...argueing back and forth its OP..No its not! doesnt help anything...I've put in my suggestions for it Loth has put in his...and Silas has put in the orig suggestion...so far none of the other posts are relevent or helpful

Stop argueing and fine toon this sucker...and we should keep the name Wizard F*@#er


and to not be a hypocrate...Freedom of movement and death ward as free actions would be nice...but with a short duration...like a rage effect....I would agree to a dispell on crit I think...FoM and Deathward on Perm until dispelled is still a bit much...I could even go for mid 20 SR it would still cause some spells to miss but not so many that the caster still doesnt have a chance to win

[Silas North]

Well, Rogue I disagree with you about the prc being OP (after a bit of tweaking that is) and I think the Wizard Slayer would increase the appearance of the classes you spoke of as being nowhere to be seen. I also disagree about the assassin. The WS would fear him, but numerous other classes laugh at him and form clubs where he's not invited. But... that's not really the point. lol

What I do agree on, is that if certain classes can be modified slightly, as well as some spells (*cough*Bigby'sandWordofFaith*cough*), then a class like the Wizard Slayer would be more a 'fun idea' and less a 'fun idea AND semi-necessity'. It would also fulfill the intention of making others want to play other classes more, which is just fine with me. More importantly, it would likely satisfy many players.

If the end result is the same either way, I say 'huzzah' and Godspeed to Cornuto.

[Urithrand]

1) What buffs were that exactly? Shapechange? Shades? Improved Mage Armor? Preminition? Because those are still intact.

Amazing how people forget that a wizard's darling, the very staples of their buffing repertoire are mage armour and shield. Their very bread and butter, and they have been nerfed to near uselessness already. The fact that it was done years ago doesn't alter the fact that it's done. I can't believe you proved it by even MENTIONING improved mage armour, when it's been completely decimated by Sundren nerfing.

It's getting very tiresome everyone talking about how powerful level 8 and 9 spells are. Damned straight, that's why it takes months and months of dying over and over before you can cast them, and even then you get a very limited selection.

2) Last time I saw your deep-gnome wizard shapechanged into a demon, he had an AC of 54+. You were even bragging about this to me. Even if you removed the benefit of the deep gnome racial abilities thats 50+, so what were you saying about low AC again?

I have NEVER EVER in the history of Sundren played a deep gnome. Nor have I ever got a wizard to 54AC. Leckith was my most powerful caster ever, and even with all his own level 19 buffs, the buffs from a wizard and the buffs from a favoured soul thrown in the mix with his Full Plate and tower shield, he managed to achieve about 50AC.

3) 50-70g a buff is hardly crippling. However, I do agree with you that this would be better off being removed.

4) And as stated by countless others, your casters would still be able to lord it over NON-wizard slayers while the wizard slayers are getting their butts handed to them by Weapon Masters, Assassins, Monks, etc etc etc.

Why does everyone continually think that wizards can kick everyone else's ass? Anyone EVER catches me unbuffed (which I usually am - I don't play characters who walk around buffed 20/7) then I am royally screwed.

The fact that you are taking this personally (and admit to such) reveals a certain motive that I think you need to take a long hard look at. It's just a game and this prc is just an idea that I believe will make a lot of people happy.

Perhaps you should reflect this insight onto yourself. EVERYONE seems to agree that this PrC is too powerful. Could it be that you are somewhat blind to the stupidly OP nature of this class because it was both your suggestion and your intention to play one?

People keep talking about the way this will impact casters on the server - but you're forgetting that it's not just casters who benefit from being buffed. Everyone on the server will travel with a cleric or a wizard when they get the chance - and then their wonderful spells are suddenly not so OP when they're being helpful.

[Dragor]

and once again can we please get back on topic here

[DM_Equinox]

Can we all take a deep breath and keep the arguments rational. Please?

[Seheren]

Despite all the inequality in melee/Caster argument, I still would rather play non-casters. I have had several level 20 Casters in the past, yet I find the melee classes to be more fun and play more melee chars then not. Most of these melee chars are as useful if not more useful then a caster when buffed up a bit, and with all the casters around thats most of the time, not to mention a lot of these melee classes have great RP potential.

Summing it up, just because as a melee char you cant buff yourself up, doesnt mean your worthless and there is no point playing. If its so bad that you cant do it, play a caster. Melee chars are still relevant and viable as useful chars...

[Peridan]

I don't think it'd be so bad to implement a highly specialized PrC that runs along these lines, either faction or race oriented. After reading through this entire thread, it seems most would prefer if it was less powerful than originally suggested.

I would agree, to some extent. But I do like the concept of a Mage Killer that actually has a niche in hunting spellcasters. I'd vote for it, if it was perhaps it had a strict set of feat requirements.

[BedlamX]

OK...suggestions cometh

I figure what the heck, I'll suggest a prc I've had in mind for a while.

Spellbreaker
--------------
Prerequisites:
-+5 base attack
-Feats: Magic Attuned, Godsbane, Weapon Focus: (any melee)
-Knowledge: Arcana 2 ranks, Knowledge: Religion 2 ranks, Spellcraft 4 ranks
-You cannot have any levels in the following classes: Bard, Cleric, Druid, Favored Soul, Paladin, Ranger, Sorcerer, Spirit Shaman, Warlock, Wizard (taking any of these classes will cause you to lose all abilities as a Spellbreaker).

I'd make it a +6 BAB, same feats, but bump up the skill pre-reqs to all be 4 or 5. This would make it need to be a lvl 6 fighter or barbarian or a lvl 8 rogue and cause a burn of skill points for cross-class skills (which will still be tough for a fighter type) and necessitate a higher level to even begin taking the PRC (lvl 7 minimum to meet the 5 points in cross-class skills).

Stats:
-HD: 8
-BAB: high
-skill points: 2 + INT modifier
-high saves: Fortitude and Will
-The Spellbreaker gains no new weapon or armor proficiencies.

Class Skills: Climb, Craft: Alchemy, Craft: Armorsmithing, Craft: Jewelcrafting, Craft: Tailoring and Leatherwork, Craft: Weaponsmithing, Decipher Script, Gather Information, Intimidate, Jump, Knowledge: Arcana, Knowledge: Religion, Knowledge: The Planes, Lore, Parry, Search, Sense Motive, Spellcraft, Taunt, Use Magic Device, Use Rope.

These look pretty good. Might think about dropping HD to 6 to further gimp the class as opposed to pure fighter types.

Abilities:
-Spell Sense: starting at level 1, the Spellbreaker gains the ability to cast Detect Magic and Read Magic at will.

-Spellguard: starting at level 2, the Spellbreaker gains a +2 save bonus vs. spells. This increases to +4 at level 6 and +6 at level 8.

Spell Sense is pretty cool and nowhere near OP for anyone to have. Drop the Spellguard progression to +2, +3, and +4 with the same level progression.

-Spell Devour: The Spellbreaker must succeed at a successful touch attack for this ability to take place. The Spellbreaker rolls a dispel check of 1d20+ his Spellbreaker's levels against 11+ the innate spell level of every spell effect on its target. For every spell effect dispelled, the Spellbreaker gains +1 health regeneration every round for 5 rounds. This ability can be used 1/day at level 4 and 2/day at level 9.

This sounds cool, but a bit OP when you think of all the spells a fully buffed caster has up at any given time. And with a touch attack by-passing armor (at least I think it still does), the high BAB would make this an almost guarranteed hit. This one should probably go away or be seriously redone.

-Spell Resistance: starting at level 5, the Spellbreaker gains spell resistance equal to 22 + his Spellbreaker levels.

I like the SR, but it may be a bit high. Perhaps drop the max from 32 to 20 or 25 (10+level or 15+ level). Coupled with the drop in Save bonus, this would put this class below a monk for blowing off spells (at least from what I can cypher out...but been wrong before)

-Breach Blade: starting at level 6, whenever the Spellbreaker lands a successful melee attack upon their target, one random spell effect is dispelled. For every effect removed, the target recieves 1d6 + INT modifier damage in addition to whatever damage is done by the melee attack itself. This ability includes magical effects brought on by warlock invocations, but has no effect on buffs recieved from other sources, such as a Barbarian's Rage. At level 10, every successful melee attack removes two spell effects with the bonus damage being unchanged.

Make this an activated action (like disarm) with a cooldown timer that makes it only usable once per round or every other round (whatever that would be). Also, is there any way to make it not 100% effective? It should have some chance to fail, but not a very high chance. Maybe make it 85% or 90% effective in removing one effect (if possible). Or make it need a successful DC roll of some sort (sorry...not good with how dispels work, so not sure if that is possible). Basically some way to leave this in, but make it not as spammable as every attack (dual-wielders can get some serious number of attacks) and have a chance of not working (though I think the cooldown should be much shorter if there is a chance of failure...minimum of letting it be used once per round in that case).

-Sever Chain: The Spellbreaker is able to create a minor dimensional rift outward from his body at a radius of 30 feet. All summoned creatures, be them friend or foe, caught in the rift are immediately unsummoned with no save allowed. This requires a standard action. This ability can be used 2/day at level 7 and 3/day at level 9.

Personally, I don't have a problem with this as written. This is basically Banishment, isn't it? Only thing I can think of is maybe making it start at lvl 5 with 1/day and increase to 2/day at 9 or 10.

Okie dokie. There are my suggestions. Fire at will

[Silas North]

Perhaps you should reflect this insight onto yourself. EVERYONE seems to agree that this PrC is too powerful. Could it be that you are somewhat blind to the stupidly OP nature of this class because it was both your suggestion and your intention to play one?

Call me crazy, but it really does not seem like EVERYONE hates this idea. It more seems a general agreement that it currently is too potent as it stands. After reading these forums and speaking to many in pms, they have made me realize that they are correct (especially about the Spell Devour). A bit of tweaking is best. The original idea was just a rough draft anyway.

Regardless, it's obvious I crossed a line with you Uri and for that I apologize. I would also like to apologize to the staff for creating this mess to begin with and would request that this thread be locked. Things are escalating to a point I never intended and I would rather not see things get worse.

[Kaeldorn]

Thanks for your input all. At present, we're not looking to add new PrCs. While the concept put forth is pretty fun, most posts have been about balancing it one way or another, and that really doesn't have that much of a point, considering the class just doesn't exist.

Closing as requested.