Prestige class idea.

[Silas North]

Dispell on hit is more for a single player game. Too powerfull for a PW.

With all the people claiming casters are too powerful, I don't think that's the case. Yes, this thing would have a major advantage against casters. That's the point.

Wizard Slayer vs. (Cleric or EK)
------------------------------
Wizard Slayer will have weapon gear and stats similar to a fighter (maybe slightly less due to lack of feat freedom).
Cleric or EK is in all their buffed glory toting a 41-45 AC, forcing the WS to roll something along the lines of 10-14 to even land a hit. Even if he does land a hit, he may not dispel anyting too useful. And if his foe is an EK, he'll likely have to cut through Mirror Image. The best chance of the EK and Cleric lays in the fact that the WS may have to land a FEW hits before he removes enough buffs to be able to turn the fight around. In that amount of time, the WS has a chance of already being dead. Meanwhile, the Cleric or EK only has to roll something like a 4-7 to hit the WS. SR doesent protect against a mace or sword to the face, nor does it protect against enchantment spells placed on a weapon. Now, even though not completely helpless against a WS, a cleric or EK does have the disadvantage in a drawn out slugfest. My response to that is "so what?" The WS would get clobbered against an Assassin, Weapon Master, or any other kind of true physical build because none of his tricks work on them.

Wizard Slayer vs. Wizard
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Now these guys might have a harder time than the cleric or EK, due to the fact that melee is not their thing. However, they still have a chance of cutting through the WS SR, especially if they invested in Spell Penetration. A wizard with Improved Spell Penetration would have to roll around an 8 to beat the WS SR (7 if he's a Red Wizard). After overcoming that with a Bigby's, it's all over. Just summon a beast to beat them silly, or use Shapechange to beat them silly, or use spells that cut through SR, like those awesome orb spells. (Maximized Greater Orbs will do 90 dmg with a successful ranged touch attack, no saves allowed, SR is ignored).

On paper, the WS LOOKS tougher than it truly is. Delve a little deeper though and it's quickly revealed how looks can be deceiving. Though I do agree (as stated in my previous post) that some changes would indeed be best.

Speaking of paper, one way to look at this :
Melee and Stealth builds = Rock (yes I know you sneaky rogues don't like to get compared to those beef-eaters, but work with me here.)
Caster builds = Paper
Wizard Slayer builds = Scissors

[BedlamX]

Dispell on hit is more for a single player game. Too powerfull for a PW.

I'll try and remember how overpowered that would be next time I am spammed with Bigbys, blinded, storm of vengeanced, or have to beat through a dozen buffs to actually get to a caster with my fighter.

Funny that the only argument against this is that it would give a non-caster a distinct advantage over a caster or anyone who relies on buffs. Sounds pretty familiar to the argument about casters having a distinct advantage over non-casters that is always going on. Seems the casters like their advantages.

And, as Silas pointed out, his wizard slayer would get his butt handed to him by any pure melee build worth it's salt. And, if you were to make the dispel on hit an active feat, the killer would have to activate it for each use and it could easily have a cool-down timer added to make it only usable on one attack per melee to take away the fact that fighters have lots of attacks at higher levels.

[Urithrand]

Of course wizards can cast disjunction - but that's what they DO. They use and combat magic. There should never be a class which can decimate any other class with almost 100% certainty. Clearly people who don't think dispel on hit is OP have forgotten the *mayhem* caused by the spawns when they had the ability to dispel - or the orcs who had dispelling arrows. Players were in an uproar as spawns server-wide were suddenly destroying *everyone*.

So no, I don't think it's OP for a class to be almost completely invulnerable to magic, or for that same class to be able to *destroy* the magic defenses of others, I think it is ridiculous and insane.

I would agree if the members of this class could never receive buffs themselves, then perhaps that would make this class even close to being the equal of any other class on the server.

And, as Silas pointed out, his wizard slayer would get his butt handed to him by any pure melee build worth it's salt.

So you clearly agree that what you're angling for is a class that can cream mages AND melee characters. Not asking for much, are you?

[Dragor]

I would lean towards something that instead of SR and Dispell on Hit, got a progression of spell breach and spell mantle for a shorter duration than the spells AND got d6 hp and Medium AB insdead of the fighter progression it can be bearable if the amount of times they could use the abilities was limited in number or limited via a cooldown timer.

I agree with Urith that, as suggested, this PrC is insanely powerful.


I also think the main reason the Mage Killer sucks is the rediculous amount of feats in its requirements, it isnt a powerfull PrC so it shouldnt have that harsh of requirements

[Silas North]

So you clearly agree that what you're angling for is a class that can cream mages AND melee characters. Not asking for much, are you?

LOL what?!

The fact that the Wizard Slayer could get throttled by a competent melee or stealth build is obviously not a complaint. It's a SELLING POINT. It's a GOOD thing that the WS can get beat up by such builds. I'm quite positive that is what Bedlam meant as well.

Also, the arrows were a RANGED dispel and made EVERY buff subject to fall. The WS can only dispel at melee range and can only remove ONE buff at a time (possibly two if Improved Breach Blade remains as is).

As for shutting down the main aspect of a class, I'd like to point out that Living Undeath is a SECOND level spell that pretty much completely shuts down rogues. Before you claim that the WS completely shuts down caster classes, I implore you to read my Wizard Slayer vs. (clerics and EKs) and my Wizard Slayer vs. Wizards examples above.

[BedlamX]

So you clearly agree that what you're angling for is a class that can cream mages AND melee characters. Not asking for much, are you?

What are you talking about? I just said his class would get creamed by any decent melee build, so I didn't agree to any such thing. I even proposed a way to make it NOT as powerful as Silas' suggestion. The idea to limit the SR was already put forth, so I didn't think I needed to mention it again.

And no...I don't think I'm asking for much. A PRC that has a VERY good chance to win against a caster? Hell yeah that would be nice to see. Casters DOMINATE any PvP match-up against non-casters as is. If they get jumped, most just go ethereal and leave to buff up and come back after the ones that jumped them. Someone comes up with an idea that would dominate casters (at the expense of being whipped by a decent melee build) and gets jumped on from the get-go with how overpowered it is. What I see is a totally hippocratic view that casters should be able to dominate all melee builds but nothing should be able to touch them.

If you're gonna put words in my mouth (or screen as it were), please at least read what I type first.

[Redjack]

I think a good melee cleric would beat the Spellbreaker if the breaker wasn't buffed. Actual practice would be needed to find out for sure. My thinking is a cleric would be able to beat him down before he could strip enough buffs off. And then a cleric could keep calling up summons.
And make the class available to all factions and it would make some interesting mixes.
I foresee a Blackguard/spellbreaker of Bane in the future.
If you kept the BAB high then about every melee class would be wanting levels in this for sure.

[Subal]

While we are on the subject i would love to see a Runesmith , always been one of my favorite classes, with so much rp potential. I tried making one rp wise but just couldnt cut it.

Found in the Races of stone book.

[Lothoir]

There should never be a class which can decimate any other class with almost 100% certainty.

Such as a full caster class versus any other class?

And the reason Bloodmaim dispels were so unpopular was because, over the course of a run, you had to fight at least 50 some enemies that were all archers and could all dispel on hit. One on one, there would have been no problem at all.

And if the SR is the big problem then how about giving him some immunities or DR instead:

3: DR 5/- Magic
5: Permanent Freedom of Movement effect
8: DR 10/- Magic
10: Immunity: Death

And then maybe throw a spell mantle once per day in there, so it would be..
2: Least Spell Mantle
4: Lesser Spell Mantle
6: Spell Mantle
9: Greater Spell Mantle

None of the spell mantles would replace the others, so technically the Wizard F#!ck@r would have 4 mantles per day, but only one of each. Of course, they would need to be instant activations as well. I do think they should get some sort of dispel on hit at higher levels, however.

[Sypthe]

Isn't there a "Mage Killer" in Magic of Faerūn?

-Sypthe

[Lothoir]

Isn't there a "Mage Killer" in Magic of Faerūn?

-Sypthe

'Mage Killer' is a full spellcasting progression class that is absolutely horrible, which is why no one plays them. It costs a ton of feats to use, and then gives you spell focus in four schools and augment summoning, which doesn't really help.

The main point though, is that there is currently no way for a melee character to touch a caster, which is why Silas proposed the aptly named Wizard F#%ck*r.

[Subal]

Improved knockdown + weapon with greater dispell = mage killer , look we solved the problem

[Thief Of Navarre]

I'll try and remember how overpowered that would be next time I am spammed with Bigbys, blinded, storm of vengeanced, or have to beat through a dozen buffs to actually get to a caster with my fighter.

Funny that the only argument against this is that it would give a non-caster a distinct advantage over a caster or anyone who relies on buffs. Sounds pretty familiar to the argument about casters having a distinct advantage over non-casters that is always going on. Seems the casters like their advantages.

And, as Silas pointed out, his wizard slayer would get his butt handed to him by any pure melee build worth it's salt. And, if you were to make the dispel on hit an active feat, the killer would have to activate it for each use and it could easily have a cool-down timer added to make it only usable on one attack per melee to take away the fact that fighters have lots of attacks at higher levels.

Mages/clerics can only cast one spell per round, if you resist it you get four attacks that will (assuming they dont have mirror image) kill the caster outright. A barbarian with greater rage and steadfast determination would just run through a mage without blinking. Rogues, fair enough.. they dont fair so well, neither do pure fighters. But if you want to be good against casters there are ways to go about it! Sundren has quite the list of custom feats that up your saves vs spells.

*edit* The only problem I see with casters is that they dont look after their party enough. Just hover around invisible soaking xp up. Cant remember the last time a priest had a healing spell in their prepared spells, let alone cast one on me when I was in negative hitpoints....

[vexxen]

This is a really neat idea, that spell breaker class.. Sure he might get ganked against Melee builds that don't rely on buffs.. But I'd make one even if all I was extremely good at was fighting casters ((bare with me xD just came off anestthetics))

[Urithrand]

So to recap. In Sundren, we have shafted *ahem* "balanced" casters by:

1) Nerfing their most powerful buffs.
2) Maxing out all magical equipment at +3 so said casters can never achieve a usable AC.
3) Charging casters money every time they cast said nerfed buffs so that if a caster runs out of money, they are almost helpless.
4) Introducing a class whose sole purpose is to fuck those casters in the ass - while those casters are absolutely helpless against said new class.

I think casters are getting quite a raw enough time of it already without an army of magic-immune players running around kicking them from pillar to post. So the clerics are OP'd, Wizards totally get the raw end of the deal. Talk about bigbys all you want, but getting to the level where you can use a Bigbys is fucking tough, wizards die more than any other class in their levelling process, and now we have to pay for Bigbys anyway.

I have no shame in admitting that I'm taking this at a personal level, yes I'm known to always play casters, but quite frankly, my wizards NEVER win in PvP situations even as it is at the moment, I don't see this class as a balanced or fair addition to a server like this where the balance has already been shifted away from arcanists so much already.