Turn Resistance for PC Vampires

[Kaeldorn]

Anyways.. although I'm partially guilty of rambling on myself, this thread is of no more use because the proposed 'fix' has already been made.

Closing the thread.

[Stratigo]

Well does not mater if we use try to hide or not. detect undead outs us from across the map. also I blame all the good gear looking evil @ xaayne Grann dies horribly with no chance of winning. in about ever pvp (player vs people) even he's been in. cause no one on the server save for very few 1v1 a vamp. They mock Rp while tells are sent out to get the mob with there torches and pitch forks. that is besides the point and in the end i dont mind. I like seening people beat up a vamp it makes them feel good. In then end as long as we all had fun GG.

Heh, that's a pretty tall claim you have there.

[JotunWarrior]

I had a vampire for a while. He tried wearing a disguise.
He was also level 8, so he had a reason to try to avoid combat.
It didn't work at all and he immediatly died, though.

[Talleyman99]

Well does not mater if we use try to hide or not. detect undead outs us from across the map. also I blame all the good gear looking evil @ xaayne Grann dies horribly with no chance of winning. in about ever pvp (player vs people) even he's been in. cause no one on the server save for very few 1v1 a vamp. They mock Rp while tells are sent out to get the mob with there torches and pitch forks. that is besides the point and in the end i dont mind. I like seening people beat up a vamp it makes them feel good. In then end as long as we all had fun GG.

[Lilene Jora]

That's because rogues don't get made into vampires for some reason to actually have any tricky skills >.<. There's a peculiar bias to people with casting abilities for some reason :P.

[Kaeldorn]

lol @ Xaayne

Sad, but true.

And what Strat says, too..

Not once have I seen a vampire character using a disguise so far. The obvious black masked hood doesn't count.

[Stratigo]

Vampires on this server do have a lot of benefits.

And to be honest, people wouldn't be tempted to throw up detect undead all the time if the vampires did walk around in ALL BLACK Mwahahahaing where ever they go. I don't need detect undead to guess a vampire, you guys pretty much give it away.

[JotunWarrior]

Xaayne can not only be shut down with the press of a button, he can be shut down with the press of almost any button! Let's take a look at some common ones:

Blinding spittle ((This is a second circle spell.)), any willsave spell, Bigby's, Word of faith, ethereal, vampire dominate, storm of vengeance, any slowing effect...

Not to mention the fact my level 20 warrior tends to do about 20 damage to a vampire before they completly obliterate him.

((The fundamental flaw in Xaayne's build is a lack of 20 cleric levels.))

The point is, vampires just need to learn how to die horribly with no chance of winning. It's not that hard.

[Kaizen]

Would any of you, no matter how strong you got your character, want the complete weakness of being shut down with the press of a button? I don't think you would.

It's like the opposite of etheral!

[Sir Kharn]

This is lol.

The Paladin says it's too easy, the Cleric says it's just right. Today is weird.

Hah!

Giving vampires turn resistance is like giving someone a chance of surviving after being hurled into the sun.

Do vamps get a penalty if they dont feed btw?

[Kaeldorn]

I scripted in something that should provide vampires PCs with their turning resistance.

If vampires are to get some of their special trademark abilities (such as shapeshifting) from the Monstrous Manual, then I hope some of the hard statistical bonuses they get to skills and ability scores will go.

The problem isn't so much that the Vampire as a template is too powerful, but that it's basically making level 28 characters out of level 20's, whereas non-vampires have absolutely no way to reach such heights because of the way the level cap works. This is the reason why I was in favour of a template class-based advancement when the idea was first discussed.. because then you're not just tacking 8 levels on top, but you'd have to take levels to reach the vampire's full potential and once you'd hit the Sundren level cap you're at a power level similar to everyone else's.

Given that vampires can only go around at night and that at dusk every PC with Detect Undead throws it up, how far are those political ambitions going to go?

That's a serious flaw in the way Detect Undead works in NWN2.. It should work exactly the same way as Detect Evil or Detect Magic.

You can detect the aura that surrounds undead creatures. The amount of information revealed depends on how long you study a particular area.

1st Round: Presence or absence of undead auras.
2nd Round: Number of undead auras in the area and the strength of the strongest undead aura present. If you are of good alignment, and the strongest undead aura’s strength is overwhelming (see below), and the creature has HD of at least twice your character level, you are stunned for 1 round and the spell ends.
3rd Round: The strength and location of each undead aura. If an aura is outside your line of sight, then you discern its direction but not its exact location.

You're not just going to stand around and focus for 18 seconds every minute. I hate the tracking feature X(

Even then, in the middle of a bustling city, you're not going to be able to tell accurately which individual is a vampire. They blend in with the crowd and avoid suspicious paladin figures. I'm all for a house rule that says the tracking feature is null and void in populated areas unless a DM authorises it. That doesn't mean a vampire should be able to just waltz by the entrance of a temple filled with vigilant vampire-hating clergy without being noticed either, though.

[Kaizen]

would any of you, no matter how strong you got your character, want the complete weakness of being shut down with the press of a button? I don't think you would.

lol fighters.

[roguethree]

Would any of you, no matter how strong you got your character, want the complete weakness of being shut down with the press of a button? I don't think you would.

lol fighters.

But that's what I'm saying. The fights are becoming push button ---> win for a paladin, which turns 3 levels lower than a cleric does. I've actually illustrated my point quite clearly with teh maths. If people don't think turning is OP against PC vamps right now, well, they're just not getting teh maths.

[roguethree]

Unless you were trying to raise a dead god and spread fear and strife. Given that vampires can only go around at night and that at dusk every PC with Detect Undead throws it up, how far are those political ambitions going to go? Vampires don't get to walk away when I'm around; I force the conflict, and because I'm forcing the conflict, they should have all of the features that jack up their ECL at their disposal.

[prismaticcrow]

I don't think you realize the overwhelming weakness of the Turn. Vampires are powerful, very powerful. People think they should have weaknesses. I honestly agree. Everything should have a counter of some kind.

But this is different.

This isn't some counter. This isn't some mere advantage.

It's a pure win.

Against any decent high level cleric with Turn Undead (clerics are the most common class people play by the way) a vampire is defeat. Period. No fight. No challenge. No dramatic moments or tense confrontations. A cleric spams his Turn hotkey and shuts down the other player. End of story. This isn't a weakness. It's an exploit. Even the Bibgy's spells can be warded. Turning cannot be saved against, it cannot be warded against, it cannot be resisted. There is absolutely no defense against it. Nothing stops it.

Would any of you, no matter how strong you got your character, want the complete weakness of being shut down with the press of a button? I don't think you would.