Turn Resistance for PC Vampires

[Lollercide]

They apparently like the lady vamps.

Myth.

Truth: nobody likes vampires to the point that even boobs can not make them likable.

I also agree that people shouldn't be able to build towards full-proof method of slaying all vampires, but people who don't build towards vampire slaying should have just as much of a chance as vampires have against people that build for vampire/undead slaying.

[Silas North]

I also agree that people shouldn't be able to build towards full-proof method of slaying all vampires, but people who don't build towards vampire slaying should have just as much of a chance as vampires have against people that build for vampire/undead slaying.

Well said. As it stands now, a vamp with even a semi-competent build or better practically has a guaranteed win over anyone not built specifically to fight them or has several levels above theirs. I don't much care for this.

HOWEVER, vamp players are people too. They in turn should have at least SOME chance against undead-hunters.

I say weaken some of their other abilities, but find a way to make the turn resistance work. Get off your lazy butt and fix it Kael!! :P

P.S. Please don't hurt me Kael.

[Redjack]

Being turned used to not be a problem cause everyone just charged in to slug it out hand to hand.
GBX was considering something to help ward against turning. Evil clerics rebuking undead would Bolster undead such as pc vamps and summons against being turned. He also said something about being able to transform into a bat was on his list of things to do.

Imagine this scene at the campfire.

PC#1 "Weather sure is nice tonight, not raining."
PC#2 "Yeah, funny.Never seen so many bats out before."
PC#1 "Well I'm going to take avantage of this weather and go bash some goblins, see ya later." (walks off towards the Sharahan hills).
PC#2 "Hey! check it out, all those goofy bats are following you."
PC#1 (right before entering the transition) "Weird, guess they can keep me company."

Did GBX get a real job or something?

[Talleyman99]

Non of us vamps are saying boohoo boohoo we can be turned make so we cant. Just saying make it so we get the defence we are supposed to have. Cause everytime a player has used turn around Grann well he's been turned. It is oh so much fun to watch the mob of players kill you while you stand there. After turning on subdual and planing out who your going to attack to make it a fun fight for everyone with out going to the dominate button.

If nothing get changes I will still be Happy and honored to play the baddie vamp and try to at that bit of fun into the confilict and rp of the server. cause really everyone says Gah Sudren has vamps... I looks at it like Wow that server ahs vamps thats cool!

[Lothoir]

Could also just add in Life Ward and say problem solved, it's the exact opposite of Death Ward: makes you immune to all positive energy, which includes turn attempts

[roguethree]

Opposite of good. We don't want immunity; we want difficulty.

[Sir Kharn]

leave it as it is, vamps need the drawbacks. I imagine its one of the things that makes them interesting to play...

[roguethree]

This is lol.

The Paladin says it's too easy, the Cleric says it's just right. Today is weird.

[Thief Of Navarre]

Like Kael said, cant these vamps keep a low profile? You dont need to actively seek conflict with ranking champions of lathander to prove your existance.

Vampires drink blood because they like it, its nowhere stated that they have motivations above making it easier for themselves to drink said blood. Political ambitions may factor ints this but only the most retarded zer0 intelligence vampire would consider open conflict a viable option.

[prismaticcrow]

I don't think you realize the overwhelming weakness of the Turn. Vampires are powerful, very powerful. People think they should have weaknesses. I honestly agree. Everything should have a counter of some kind.

But this is different.

This isn't some counter. This isn't some mere advantage.

It's a pure win.

Against any decent high level cleric with Turn Undead (clerics are the most common class people play by the way) a vampire is defeat. Period. No fight. No challenge. No dramatic moments or tense confrontations. A cleric spams his Turn hotkey and shuts down the other player. End of story. This isn't a weakness. It's an exploit. Even the Bibgy's spells can be warded. Turning cannot be saved against, it cannot be warded against, it cannot be resisted. There is absolutely no defense against it. Nothing stops it.

Would any of you, no matter how strong you got your character, want the complete weakness of being shut down with the press of a button? I don't think you would.

[roguethree]

Unless you were trying to raise a dead god and spread fear and strife. Given that vampires can only go around at night and that at dusk every PC with Detect Undead throws it up, how far are those political ambitions going to go? Vampires don't get to walk away when I'm around; I force the conflict, and because I'm forcing the conflict, they should have all of the features that jack up their ECL at their disposal.

[roguethree]

Would any of you, no matter how strong you got your character, want the complete weakness of being shut down with the press of a button? I don't think you would.

lol fighters.

But that's what I'm saying. The fights are becoming push button ---> win for a paladin, which turns 3 levels lower than a cleric does. I've actually illustrated my point quite clearly with teh maths. If people don't think turning is OP against PC vamps right now, well, they're just not getting teh maths.

[Kaizen]

would any of you, no matter how strong you got your character, want the complete weakness of being shut down with the press of a button? I don't think you would.

lol fighters.

[Kaeldorn]

I scripted in something that should provide vampires PCs with their turning resistance.

If vampires are to get some of their special trademark abilities (such as shapeshifting) from the Monstrous Manual, then I hope some of the hard statistical bonuses they get to skills and ability scores will go.

The problem isn't so much that the Vampire as a template is too powerful, but that it's basically making level 28 characters out of level 20's, whereas non-vampires have absolutely no way to reach such heights because of the way the level cap works. This is the reason why I was in favour of a template class-based advancement when the idea was first discussed.. because then you're not just tacking 8 levels on top, but you'd have to take levels to reach the vampire's full potential and once you'd hit the Sundren level cap you're at a power level similar to everyone else's.

Given that vampires can only go around at night and that at dusk every PC with Detect Undead throws it up, how far are those political ambitions going to go?

That's a serious flaw in the way Detect Undead works in NWN2.. It should work exactly the same way as Detect Evil or Detect Magic.

You can detect the aura that surrounds undead creatures. The amount of information revealed depends on how long you study a particular area.

1st Round: Presence or absence of undead auras.
2nd Round: Number of undead auras in the area and the strength of the strongest undead aura present. If you are of good alignment, and the strongest undead aura’s strength is overwhelming (see below), and the creature has HD of at least twice your character level, you are stunned for 1 round and the spell ends.
3rd Round: The strength and location of each undead aura. If an aura is outside your line of sight, then you discern its direction but not its exact location.

You're not just going to stand around and focus for 18 seconds every minute. I hate the tracking feature X(

Even then, in the middle of a bustling city, you're not going to be able to tell accurately which individual is a vampire. They blend in with the crowd and avoid suspicious paladin figures. I'm all for a house rule that says the tracking feature is null and void in populated areas unless a DM authorises it. That doesn't mean a vampire should be able to just waltz by the entrance of a temple filled with vigilant vampire-hating clergy without being noticed either, though.

[Sir Kharn]

This is lol.

The Paladin says it's too easy, the Cleric says it's just right. Today is weird.

Hah!

Giving vampires turn resistance is like giving someone a chance of surviving after being hurled into the sun.

Do vamps get a penalty if they dont feed btw?