Amending Stealth Rules

[Sir Kharn]

I always thought and roleplayed that HIPS grants the stealther an almost magical ability to manipulate shadows because he/she is that good.

This has always been my thinking.
The only time i ever roll spot checks for stealthmonkeys is when i hear something, if i know the player i might send a tell ooc asking how we want to handle it or i just wait and see what they do.Mostly i dont bother tho as most stealthers i know have a high hide that i couldnt possibly detect.

[Cornuto]

Hide in Plain Sight (Su)

A shadowdancer can use the Hide skill even while being observed. As long as she is within 10 feet of some sort of shadow, a shadowdancer can hide herself from view in the open without anything to actually hide behind. She cannot, however, hide in her own shadow.

PL and I used to have endless debates regarding this. His view was entirely in line with Dain's. That the ability allows you to make a hide roll while being observed, and that's it. You still need to find cover, and you can't just be standing around out in the open.

My view... See that (Su)? That lil' SOB right there stands for supernatural. It's defies reality. Let's really look at this sentence right here... a shadowdancer can hide herself from view in the open without anything to actually hide behind. ...Provided that there is a shadow nearby.

The rules as stated in the wiki are a compromise.

[Kaizen]

Shadowdancer =/= Assassin


It's why they get death attack, and the SD doesn't.


noob

[Cornuto]

Shadowdancer =/= Assassin


It's why they get death attack, and the SD doesn't.


noob

Hide in Plain Sight (Su)

At 8th level, an assassin can use the Hide skill even while being observed. As long as he is within 10 feet of some sort of shadow, an assassin can hide himself from view in the open without having anything to actually hide behind. He cannot, however, hide in his own shadow.

... also, blurry is a tool.

Sorry, here's the assassin feat, its way different.

[Kaizen]

*shakes angry fist*

[Catastrophe]

Don't worry, I luff you both.

<3

[Cornuto]

Don't worry, I luff you both.

<3

I'm in your game, breaking your chairs.

[Catastrophe]

You leave my chairs alone. I will not ruin my dress in the mud, thankyouverymuch.

[roguethree]

So many threads are so full of win, today.

[Kaizen]

You leave my chairs alone. I will not ruin my dress in the mud, thankyouverymuch.

OH MY GOD BLURRY HOW MANY TIMES WILL YOU DO THIS

Edit made by Cat.

[Handsomeman]

The idea with HiPS is that you're such a good sneak that you capitalize on some distraction and pull a Batman, not that you can just be hidden, standing in the middle of the road. Some people role play this very well; others role play this very poorly. It can be as simple as throwing something at someone's face, and in the moment that person blinks, you dive for cover. Flash pellet, "Hey, what's that?!" Whatever. Not just, "Ur looking @me but I'm not there lolol."

If you're in the open, using an object smaller than you, or pretending that a person's shadow is sufficient to become and remain unseen, you're doing it wrong.

sorry, i just had to post this. batman pulling a HIPS. i get even pros fail sometimes.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBsdV--kLoQ

[Kaizen]

OH MY GOD BLURRY HOW MANY TIMES WILL YOU DO THIS

Edit made by Cat.

It was just pillow talk, baby!

[RadiumKnight]

Sure HiPS is unfair, but then again, dungeons and dragons was not necessarily meant to be balanced.

For instance, any caster that pops off a bigbie's is relatively unstoppable.

One thing I can totally agree upon is using stealth properly. Creeping up behind cover, as opposed to just floating right next to two people and listening in on a whispered conversation for like half an hour seems a little extreme in the application of stealth.

As for those who use HiPS, just do what I do. Chances are if you have it, then you also have darkness. Just pop off a darkness spell and fade from sight into it and be an uber kewl badass like me.

[Kaizen]

and be an uber kewl badass like me.

too soon.

[Yevelian]

1. There is a house rule that a 1 always fails, however stealth is hardcoded into the engine with the 3.5 rules that a 1 does not auto fail on a skill check. This means that if a character has a Hide and Move Silent 20 points higher than another character they will never be seen, regardless of how many 1's they roll.

This actually, is not true. I have been spotted by people who needed to roll something like a 32 on a d20 to see/hear me, and been seen/heard. I do not know if its that 1 is always a fail, if it isn't, then 20 is always a success. Can't explain it, just offering it up there.


For the record, those who complain about HiPS don't understand HiPS. I've had a multitude of characters who have utilized this ability, this server, and others, the arguement always comes to, "its too over powered". Its only over powered if you consider being a wizard a rather mundane thing. Checks and balances. What one lacks, another has in spades. This is the weave woven into Dungeons and Dragons.

When in doubt I come back to the 3.5 Dungeon Masters Guide, page 195 and picture the concept of the ability. It was intended to reflect the ability of those who could do it to dance between shadow and light. Eventually in PnP, Shadowdancers gain the ability to Shadow Jump, that is travel between shadows as per dimensional door kind of spell. This reflects too, that the Shadowdancers in a real way manipulate and use shadow. A better description would be to say, let me quote from the DMG,

"Operating in the border between light and darkness, shadowdancers are nimble artists of deception. They are mysterious and unknown, never completely trusted but always inducting wonder when met."

I understand the complexities of the game engine, and that yes, many things were lost between paper and bytes of information. I'm quite old school I suppose. I try to obey server rules, and use HiPS as its intended to be used. Being we are all using a gaming engine that gets it right 25% of the time, doing it the way its supposed to be done works sometimes, sometimes it doesn't. In traditional PnP, a Shadowdancer needs only to be "within ten feet of some sort of shadow."

As for the Batman trick, this is why I carry and deploy smoke bombs.