Etherealness

[Lothoir]

Etherealness in NWN2 is completely borked. In PnP it simply shifts you to another plane (the Ethereal plane) and allows you to perceive the Material Plane. If another character also went Ethereal they would be able to see you normally as well as attack you without a problem. Casters with True Seeing on the Material Plane would be able to target the ethereal foe with force descriptor spells such as magic missile. In NWN2 Etherealness is one of the biggest 'I win' spells in the game, allowing any caster capable of casting it the ability to buff themselves to their hearts content with nothing anyone else can do about it. They can also summon monsters and undead without breaking the etherealness for as long as they can.

I honestly can't think of a proper way to fix this so I'm proposing the spell is just removed from the game entirely. This would include Ethereal Jaunt and Etherealness, though there may be some class abilities I'm forgetting.

[Lilene Jora]

I've always kinda thought the same, as unlikely as such a suggestion going through seems. I can't count the number of times I wish monk empty body was properly portrayed as etherealness, either to escape a rough spot, or to be able to shift into the ethereal plane after those cowardly casters to continue to beat them up :P.

[Kaeldorn]

Message-less invisibility is closer to etherealness than etherealness itself is, oddly enough.

Though I don't see the point in taking out something that, while not in accordnance to PnP, isn't game-breaking. Else we might as well take out parry mode and the knockdown feats too.

[Lilene Jora]

Gotta disagree about it not being a major enough mechanic to warrant examination or change though.

[Silas North]

This is definitely a topic touched upon before with similar opinions. I have to say while I'm all for completely eliminating ludicrous spells that are too hard-coded to be altered efficiently, I'm not ENTIRELY sure if I would put Etheral Jaunt and Etheralness in there. However, the case for doing so is a sound one.

One thing that can be done is perhaps a rule similar to that used for rogues and their traps. According to Sundren rules, a rogue cannot just place a dozen traps atop one another. In fact, they cannot let two traps overlap (though if they are barely touching, no big deal). They also cannot set traps near transition points. Though these rules are in place, there is nothing physically stopping a player from breaking them (though the threat of a DM smack across the head has made it a well-follwed rule).

Perhaps if a rule or two were to be made regarding etheral travel, that would more than suffice for 'nerfing' it without denying casters a useful escape ability or having to resort to eliminating it. A rule against summoning while etheral would be a good example.

[Philosopher]

I'd be perfectly okay with creating RP rules around Etherealness.

Examples might include: You may not affect the material world, and likewise, material world effects cannot affect you. Or; If you Ethereal in combat, you are considered to be fleeing and may not resume combat unless the aggressor chases you with True Seeing.

Stuff like that.

[vexxen]

That sounds pretty good actually xD because it is a pain, to see your enemy buffing from that state.. So it being a fleeing technique sounds great aswell as the RP rules suggested

[Cornuto]

One thing that can be done is perhaps a rule similar to that used for rogues and their traps. According to Sundren rules, a rogue cannot just place a dozen traps atop one another. In fact, they cannot let two traps overlap (though if they are barely touching, no big deal). They also cannot set traps near transition points. Though these rules are in place, there is nothing physically stopping a player from breaking them (though the threat of a DM smack across the head has made it a well-follwed rule).

Rule was repealed a long time ago.

[Silas North]

Are you kidding me?!

WHY!? It was a GREAT rule!

[Cornuto]

Well the transition point part was kept, the overlapping trap thing was taken away -- mostly because the strength of traps in the module made a single trap about as scary as scorpion venom.

[roguethree]

I don't see anything wrong with people going Ethereal and warding themselves: the PnP spell allows for it. It would just be a good rule of etiquette not to summon or cast offensive spells while ethereal unless doing so against an ethereal opponent.

[BedlamX]

I know almost nothing about this spell as I don't play casters high enough to use it in NWN2. But, if the spell in game removes any way to attack the person while they buff up, it is most definitely and overpowered, "I win" spell.

From what has been presented here, nothing can target the ethereal person in NWN2. But in PNP, you can target them with force spells such as magic missile if you have true seeing. If this does not work in game, then it lets you have the bonuses without the penalties/weaknesses that it gives in PNP (much like so many other spell combinations that get everyone playing non-casters riled up). It also states that spells cast while ethereal can only effect the ethereal plane (meaning no summons?) and that vision is limited to 60 feet (got that from a quick search for ethereal jaunt). Also, movement is reduced to half in PNP (no idea if that is the same in NWN2). There was no mention of buffing while ethereal and popping back fully charged and ready for battle, so that would have to be a DM call.

[Root]

Message-less invisibility is closer to etherealness than etherealness itself is, oddly enough.

Though I don't see the point in taking out something that, while not in accordnance to PnP, isn't game-breaking. Else we might as well take out parry mode and the knockdown feats too.

Knockdown: Causes someone to fall over for one round if you hit with a -4 Penalty attack roll, win a str check, and your opponent isn't immune. Removes all damage from the hit. Then has a 12s cooldown time, meaning repeated use to lock people isn't possible. Not a viable win-button, due to those many drawbacks.

Parry: Sacrifices any real offensive ability to prevent attacks against you. When fighting more than two enemies, is fairly useless. Does nothing against ranged attacks or magic, so as win-buttons go, is useless.

Etherealness: Gives you immunity to anything non-AoE and makes you undetectable to boot. Free time to buff up, create summons to fight for you, and guarantee victory, negating any bonus a non-caster might recieve by getting to you whilst you're not buffed. Non-counterable unless you're packing a high-caster-level Dispel, meaning you have access to Etherealness yourself.

Non-casters can do nothing at all against it.

It is fairly game breaking, considering it generally removes any final bastion of a favourable fight against a Cleric. Their weakness is needing time to buff, this removes it.

[Kaeldorn]

You may be making valid points, but then the way the spell works in PnP is still game-breaking. All tools that are mentioned to beat Etherealness aren't available to non-casters anyway. Barring perhaps being made ethereal by some other source that is beyond your control.

And if you are a caster fighting a cleric, you should have brought your Mordenkainen's Disjunctions and Spell Breaches to deal with his buffs.

As a side note, it'd be a hassle to code all offensive/summon spells to fizzle when ethereal. So that isn't going to happen.. and disallowing spellcasting altogether would make etherealness worse than invisibility.

[Kaizen]

Non-casters can do nothing at all against it.

Ha!


I whirlwind my way to victory against etheralness.