Stonebody

[BedlamX]

I see it as more of trying to fix the obvious glitches that happened when coding for the game. It is a little annoying that any negative effect a spell is supposed to cause to balance out the positive can be eliminated by yet another spell. Way back when I was DMing table top, this was easily countered by not letting it do that. Freedom of movement would still keep you from being further detained, but any movement limiting spell effect from your own buffs still worked through it. The computer just isn't smart enough to handle that. It is just exploiying somehting the engine will let you do, but shouldn't be doable (much like lesser restore to get rid of any fatigue-like symptoms from crafting or sleeping in armor). Same as (unless this has been fixed at some point...I never play barbarians) taking enough cleric levels to cast a spell that stops level/ability drain with your barbarian to keep from getting winded after a rage.

I don't see any of these ideas as nerfing. They just add some manner of keeping the balancing negative effects when using a powerful positive buffing spell.

[Root]

Like having 80 hit points compared to ohh say 300 or so :P

I myself don't mind the spells. I just wait til they are sleeping

Actually, considering the ease of having Stoneskin up all the time, and the difficulty of getting Adamantium weapons, casters generally have more effective HP than full warriors.

[Kaizen]

For the love of all that's good and fluffy in this world, please keep this thread on topic.

[Redjack]

Pink and green graphics with big sparkley lights. Or a giant smiley face right over the top of their heads.

[Torgar]

I play two clerics myself, and I'm all for Stone body having a visual effect, and slowing me down if I use it. I also play a Spirit Shaman, and I'm fine with Tortoise shell also being fixed so FOM doesn't keep you from slowing down. I also think Living undead should have a visible effect as well, seeing as it's supposed to make you look like you are undead, since it is physically stopping bodily functions so you can't be crit or sneak attacked. Almost all my characters are casters, and I'll be honest, I'm totally ok with these spells being fixed and/or given obvious effects.

[Seheren]

Those aren't nerfs.. They are how things should be. I like the idea of not being able to get around ALL the downsides. Though I still stand my ground that other nerfing tactics are bad.

[Dragor]

What I would be more in favor of concerning FoM and assorted, considering FoM is supposed to negate movement affecting effects (:P), as I think it fails to negate haste/expedious retreat/longstrider (which it should) is to leave it as is for the combos but when FoM is expired/dispelled the movement penalty should come back (as of now it does not)

Now nerfing the FoM's duration on the other hand...

I take this view only in defense of tortise shell which will become marginally useless without the FoM workaround and would be replaced by Spiderskin anyway

As for visual effects spells such as living undeath and stonebody scream for needing one
just replace the Avatar with a picture of Keith Richards for living undeath and use an off color stoneskin animation for stonebody (much easier and more legal that the Keith Richards thing)

Nerfing spells = BAD for everyone including Root (whose char is a bard :P)

[Root]

Pfft. Only four levels of it.

I'll happily lose all my spells (for reference, only one I use is Heroism and my healing ones) if it means we get some semblance of balance bought to the clerics. I mean I thought they were overpowered BEFORE I learned they could walk around immune to crits and with 10/adamantium DR all the time.

[Cornuto]

Pfft. Only four levels of it.

I'll happily lose all my spells (for reference, only one I use is Heroism and my healing ones) if it means we get some semblance of balance bought to the clerics. I mean I thought they were overpowered BEFORE I learned they could walk around immune to crits and with 10/adamantium DR all the time.

I think you mean +4 Strength, DR 10/adamantine, and immunity to blindness, critical hits, ability score damage, deafness, disease, electricity, poison, and stunning.

Stonebody is a hell of a spell.

[Root]

I think you mean +4 Strength, DR 10/adamantine, and immunity to blindness, critical hits, ability score damage, deafness, disease, electricity, poison, and stunning.

Stonebody is a hell of a spell.

[Philosopher]

My idea was to give Stonebody a stoneskin visual, and change Deathward so that it doesn't stop ability damage, like the real pnp version, which would put the dex penalty back on Stonebody, as well as Ironbody and Living Undeath. Not sure whats to be done about the movement penalty, though.

[Thief Of Navarre]

Saying it is easy. Making it work is the hard and unenviable task :S

In defense of tortoise shell you could always make it work as intended and Ill save myself a 6th level spell slot for something decent like greater dispel magic or another hit of regenerate

[Kaeldorn]

Err.. you're joking, right? Tortoise shell would still be incredibly useful even with the movement penalty. Every additional point of AC is more valuable than the last, until your enemy has to roll 20s to hit you at all.

[Root]

The main defense of Tortoise Shell is that it's a Druid/SS only spell. Druids that aren't the cheeseball Druid/Monk have trouble with AC.

Druids can't wear medium or heavy armour due to their vows, and lack Magic Vestment and Divine Shield. This is their primary source of AC, most likely.

Spirit Shamans can wear armour, but are lacking the best use for that spell, namely the ability to combine it with Wildshape.

Clerics have access to Enchantment buffs for both their shield and armour, and a strong deflection AC provider, on top of fullplate and shield. That's where their AC is coming from.

[Dragor]

Err.. you're joking, right? Tortoise shell would still be incredibly useful even with the movement penalty. Every additional point of AC is more valuable than the last, until your enemy has to roll 20s to hit you at all.

Except that even a mystic thurge cannot get a char's AC that high for the mossdale

If you get surrounded by more than four enemies they WILL roll enough 20's to screw you

And Archers

I'd rather sacrifice a little AC to have the option to get the hell away from a bad situation, but I'd prefer not having to

I would be surprised if a Pure or MC Druid would use tortise shell with the movement penalty