Locked gauntlets

[Lilene Jora]

If one whips out their best weapon against a WEAPON MASTER aren't you kinda' asking to get beaten up by their direct fighting feats? Pure fighters struggle so much on this server...they have plenty of weaknesses besides direct confrontation. Maybe if you're not prepared to lose your weapon when you choose to fight someone like that head on, you should disengage.

[Lothoir]

Or just tie a cord between your wrist and and your weapon so you can't accidentally drop it or have it flung out of your grasp.

[Lilene Jora]

*shrugs* I dunno, is it such a bad thing that plain old fighters have 'something' going for them? As I detailed, it's hardly invincible, at best it's a deterrent that has the potential to confer an advantage, and can still be countered with a little strategy.

[Lothoir]

The biggest thing plain old fighters have going for them are their weapons, so wouldn't an item that lets them hold onto said weapon be a good thing? It doesn't give you a bonus to disarm others, only to avoid the disarm. It helps fighters a whole lot more than the clerics, eldricht knights, monks or druid that can disarm the fighter and then laugh when he does the same before blowing them up with a spell or wildshape or flurry of unarmed strikes.

[Saulus]

It's doable just not without a lot of extra effort because disarm is a hard coded feature, there is no way for us to directly modify its behavior without recreating something to replace it.

I do think it's a good idea though.

[OnyxTigress]

It would definitely be very handy. I have a character who disarms, and I always feel awful after doing it, and if I manage to get a hold of it, I will look for a in game way to get it back, like sending it back with someone else with a message.

[Aries1918]

As a disarm user, I don't see a problem with disarm how it works now, though I may be biased. It's a technique used in the real world quite often, and I believe it is represented very well in-game. At the same time, defenses against a disarm like that gauntlet would be realistic as well. The hard-coding shouldn't be altered to "fix" disarm, but a reasonable defense against it makes sense to me.

[Lilene Jora]

I was rather of the opinion that most clerics, druids, and EK's don't have the feats to spare for disarm, or if they do, they could very easily be losing a valuable spell focus or metamagic to pick it up. Disarm also requires an odd amount of intellect. 13. Even for a monk, it certainly penalized my character to pick up the feat, having to take int instead of dex on levelup.

Fighters are more resistant to being disarmed because of their own higher max bab, no? And if it's a fighter versus a fighter...well then they're both at the same disadvantage.

As an aside:
I can't speak for blowing up a fighter with a spell or wildshape, but as for flurries of unarmed strikes...clerics, fighters, or anyone in full plate with a shield, my poor monk can barely even scratch. Monks excel vs light archers and casters on account of their medium AB. Single heavy armored bruises are their natural counter.

[Redjack]

The feat disarm is not the problem. The abuse of a feat is a problem. It is a very powerful feat like no other. Lets say a wizard or cleric cast some high lvl spell and kills his foe. That victim loses some gold and maybe has his ego hurt a bit. Now lets say someone disarms another character and runs off with his crafted weapon that was not easily gained and tosses it in the trash thinking it's good RP. Rather irritating to say the least. Have this happen several times and it can get on your nerves.
I have had my characters disarmed before and it was handled very well. Once it was a weapon my character had no business using in the first place as it was from a opposing God. No problem, the disarmer kept it, mine shouldn't had been using it RP wise anyways. Another time the disarmer returned and dropped weapon at the battle site to be recovered as his good aligned charter wouldn't have wanted to lug around a smoking blade of death anyways. Every one was happy after those encounters and I learned to be be prepared for disarm but didn't dread it. I rather like the idea of having a disarmed weapon returned to the owners inventory. Even to have a timer on the weapon started after disarm to prevent immediately rearming would keep the usefulness of the feat intact and abuse of the feat is avoided.

[BedlamX]

All my melee fighter types have Disarm (and Improved Disarm if they can fit it in). I spam the hells out of it against mobs. Against PCs...not so much. I have seen it destroy weapons and it would piss me off to have a weapon I spent a fortune on destroyed. I try not to do anything to others that I know would piss me off. Also, Improved Disarm is the dumbest feat ever (and that's saying a lot with nwn).

You have a sword in one hand and a shield (or another weapon) in the other hand. You disarm an opponent. Somehow, the weapon magically flies to your pack. This is the dumbest thing ever. Disarm works great. Smack a weapon out of your opponent's hand and it falls to the ground. Gravity works and nothing silly to explain. Imp Disarm should do the same...but give a bonus of some sort (other than just stopping teh AoO).

And sorry...a fighter not using his best weapon in a fight just cuz he might get disarmed? OK...then your monk has to stop using flurry and remove any damaging gloves. With the lack of high level weapons on this server, a high level monk with the proper feats and some semi-decent gloves will out damage a fighter that did not min/max the abilities all to hell. At lvl 20, a monk gets 5 attacks at a base of 15/15/15/10/5 (plus another with flurry and another with circle kick). Take Weapon Finesse and max the DEX and you are hitting VERY close to a fighter of the same level...but have 3 more attacks and do a base of 2D10 (20 max before glove damage)damage. Ursus has pretty good weapons and can barely do that kind of damage (1D8+2+1D4 Fire+6 from STR...20 max). His AB is probably a bit higher (at least on the high attack...not on average) than a monk of the same level, but he has fewer attacks. Now you say to remove the decent weapons? The monk would chew him up...and stock up on mundane weapons to sell later...and still get to take one item after wiping the floor with him.

You wanna use the feat, fine. Just do not insult our intelligence by claiming a monk can not hold their own against a fighter in a "low magic items" world.

EDIT: OK...misread the Imp Disarm feat as I haven't used it since version 1.12 when it always put it in the inventory. My bad on that.

[Catastrophe]

Technically, if you are using a sword and shield, and you disarm someone, the weapon goes to the ground. If you are fighting with no weapons at all, then it will go in your inventory.

[Kaizen]

disarm's gameplay mechanics is not the issue I was trying to hit.

in the great words of Sinclair "i aimed at the public's heart, and by accident I hit it in the stomach."

it's the griefing that seems to take place because of said disarm. it's never happened to any of my characters personally, but I know a lot of people who have invested lots and lots of time and materials into creating a very cool RP weapon. to have it "imp disarmed' and then thrown in a trash bin?

not cool. at all.

i mean, there's a line between RP actions and just being a RL prick. It's there, we all see it.

it would suck, if you spent ~2 in game months RPing for some very cool armor, only to have it 'taken' from your dead body as per CvC rules.

different side to the same coin.

[Lilene Jora]

I am not trying to insult anyone's intelligence. Monk's can have reasonable AB's for a medium AB class. They lack strength, with all that dex. 2d10+2 (usually) + (1d4) divine on the best available basic gloves, does not add up to consistently more than 15-16 damage a hit, on a weapon with a threat range of only 20/x2.

A fighter with a 6 or so strength bonus, maybe 7 if you can find something with +1-2 strength on it, weapon specialization, and a +2 eb weapon with 1d4 damage (gloves only get ab, not eb, for sake of argument.) is already dealing a BASE of 12 damage to each hit, before the weapon's innate properties. Add in a bastard sword, and you've got comparable damage with superior burst from better crit range. Make it a two handed weapon, and that strength bonus is going up another 1.5x.

As an anecdotal example, even someone like Xayne I've seen easily dish out hits of 50+ non-crit. My monk couldn't keep pace with that kind of damage. I expect if we fought, that even though we'd be trading blows consistently with his lower AC, he could just burst so high, potentially over 100 damage on a crit with a x3 greataxe, and his higher hit dice, I'd just get ground down by consistently higher steady damage.

As for improved disarm, I don't have it. I cant speak for what sense it makes adding the item directly to your inventory when you're wielding two weapons myself. I can see it perfectly logically if one was bare handed and improved disarmed a weapon, finding a way to grab it and wrestle it free.

I think it's a perfectly reasonable counter for the fighter to use a worse weapon, not foolishly all the time, but when he suspects, or knows from past experience he's fighting a disarming opponent. Saying the monk should not use flurry or take off gloves is not a fair comparison. The monk is already "losing" two item slots they gain no benefit from. Namely a weapon and shield, all of which most other PC's could have filled with enchanted/socketed items, and weapons with special damage types (glove damage types don't work.)

In contrast, the fighter gets a potentially enhanced shield, weapon, and gets to wear generic stat boosting gloves of some kind.

The only strength the monk really has in this case, is having nothing to lose from being disarmed back, already being empty handed, never having gained the benefit of filling those extra slots.

Red: If you want to further discuss the circumstances of what happened to Clive's weapon, and the roleplay that followed that you were understandably not witness to, given it being in the morning in game time, I would happily discuss the matter in a PM. I don't think a public thread is the place for that.

[07paul87]

I stole a lot of weapons this way, but I was also playing a bandit...

What about implementing universal weapon equip times, say a round. If these gauntlets are equipped, your weapon goes to your inventory, and doesn't suffer from the cool down.

Also: I'll be IG soon!

[Philosopher]

I am generally in agreement with Kaizen. There's nothing wrong with disarm. Its a great feat. The problem is an out of character consideration. To spend a significant portion of your play time to acquire an object, only to lose it to a disarm or unlucky pvp (or even an unfair pvp) is just plain retarded. It's frustrating and fun-destroying.

In my opinion, no one should be keeping disarmed weapons unless they beat the other character, and even then, only if it was a fair fight or has good RP reasons that could lead to interesting character interaction.