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  • Barbarian and Frenzied Berserker

    I'd like to suggest a few features and fixes to be added for the Barbarian and the Frenzied Berserker, to make them more in line with the PnP counterpart.

    For starters, Rage and Frenzy have been made Standard Actions, when that's not the case. In PnP, rage is often used as a second windish sort of ability, to give you the edge you need to wrap up a tough encounter. The thing is in NwN2, by the time you can attack again after triggering Rage, Frenzy, or god help you both, you're pretty much dead. I've seen it done on another server and I think it would make for a great addition to the barbarian and frenzied berserker classes.

    Second, the Barbarian's Indomitable Will never worked proper. In their rage, they're supposed to be pretty badass when it comes to mental power, all thanks to this ability, but since the Will bonus from the feat is the same type as the will bonus from the rage, they don't stack. I'm not a scripter but I was explained what the problem was; Neverwinter Nights 2 doesn't stack effects of the same type. For example, if you have a Greatsword +1 with +2 extra slashing damage, the +2 slashing damage overrides the +1 from the enhancement, and therefor only deals +2 instead of +3 dmg.

    Third, I don't understand the Second Wind feat requirement for the Frenzied Berserker. It's, quite frankly, a waste of feat and has nothing to do with the class. Requirements for PrCs are there as the fruit of the training a character puts himself through to achieve the class. In PnP, a barbarian (yes, because you can't be a FB if you're not a barbarian) needs Power attack, Cleave, Intimidating Rage and Destructive Rage. One of those two feats was changed in NwN2 for Great Cleave, but I'm beat as to why Extend Rage was not taken to substitute the fourth feat. Switching Second Wind for Extend Rage would make a lot more sense and it would restrict the class to Barbarians (as it should).

    In a nutshell, what I suggest is;
    1. Make Rage and Frenzy instant actions
    2. Fix Indomitable Will
    3. Switch Second Wind for Extend Rage, bringing it closer to PnP and restricting the class to Barbarians.
    Raman Aseph - Runescarred Berserker
    http://www.sundren.org/wiki/index.php?title=Raman_Aseph

  • #2
    The last update to NWN2 made instant actions possible, I'm not sure how feasible it is to change Rage (And other feats) over... a DEV would have to answer.
    Originally posted by Saulus
    Stop playing other shitty MMOs and work on Sundren, asshole.

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    • #3
      Third, I don't understand the Second Wind feat requirement for the Frenzied Berserker. It's, quite frankly, a waste of feat and has nothing to do with the class.
      The staff has discussed this already and we all seem to agree with getting rid of that requirement... and with modifying several other requirements.
      Originally posted by Saulus
      Stop playing other shitty MMOs and work on Sundren, asshole.

      Comment


      • #4
        The last server I was on had the change for the Rage and Frenzy abilities, but I can't say how hard or easy it would be to make the fix.
        Raman Aseph - Runescarred Berserker
        http://www.sundren.org/wiki/index.php?title=Raman_Aseph

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        • #5
          The orc horde approves this message.
          Sago Trumperstomper--Halfling Bandit (retired)
          Hraligar Brittlefist--Dwarven Superiority Advocate
          Kraz't Goretusk--Goretusk Tribe Chieftan

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          • #6
            Regarding Indomitable Will, if the bonuses do not stack, why not simply make it an even greater bonus whom will overlap instead?

            By level 14, the Barbarian has Greater Rage, giving out a +3 bonus to his will save. Seeing how Indominable Will would give an additional +4 bonus on will saves to resist enchantment spells - raising it to a +7 bonus against enchantment spells affecting will, then the Indominable Will class feature could just be changed to give a +7 bonus instead of +4. There would be no stacking, and the greater value would overlap... hereby granting the appropriate benefits of the class feature while the Barbarian is raging.
            Maia Nanethiel ~ Moon Elf Female Ranger

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            • #7
              Great suggestions: barbarian class requirement for frenzied berserker as per pnp would be excellent, and an instant action for rage and frenzy would also be amazing.

              Second Wind just needs a tweak, in my view. Multiplying rather than adding con bonus would make it more palatable. Unfortunately, extend rage can kill a berserker with his own hp loss.


              Am I the only freak who misses the berserker tendency to attack his own party (confusion) if he fails his will save?

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              • #8
                I quite like not having the Barbarian requirement. It makes things like Cleric/FB of Garagos or Stormlord/FB more relevant. Some things just suggest FB more than Barbarian. Xaayne, for example (nothing negative against him, but then, he's in the RP-crit thing, so all is fine), suggests more of a Fighter/FB build than a Barbarian to me.

                I like the idea of Instant rage (it can mean the difference between life and death against a caster) and Second Wind buffs, though.
                Running across the mountains, attacking with an oversized scalpel, cometh Helga Great-Wyrm! And she gives a mighty bellow:
                "Brace yourself, oh human speck of dust! You are made of meat and I am very hungry!"

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                • #9
                  Xaayne is a Barbarian/Fighter/Rogue/FB, by the way.

                  All I've got to say is that as things are now, I never use rage or frenzy. Sacrificing two rounds to do slightly better damage just isn't worth it in my opinion, because in NwN2 fights are usually won very quickly. Odds are pretty good any equal-level caster can end a fight before I can even get my frenzy and rage off, anyways.
                  Xaayne Zek: The man with no name.

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                  • #10
                    Frenzied Zerkers then tend to take massive amounts of damage as they punch themselves in the nose with their own weapon following the two-round fight, anyway.

                    Do NOT take Extend Rage if you're a Zerker...
                    Running across the mountains, attacking with an oversized scalpel, cometh Helga Great-Wyrm! And she gives a mighty bellow:
                    "Brace yourself, oh human speck of dust! You are made of meat and I am very hungry!"

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Some of the pre-reqs got changed for the classes at the moaning of an ex-dev, you see it's hard to get people to work for free without letting them put their mark on things. This is one of the things we are likely to remove as a requirement.

                      As for indomitable will, it may be tricky to get it to stack the will saves correctly as it always takes the higher number, so basically you would have to have logic track whatever is currently applied.... so not AS likely to happen.

                      When it comes to rage and berserk, I do think it would be reasonable for them to be free actions, to me when you're raging and getting pissed off you don't need time to prepare and stand there... it just happens regardless of what you are doing.

                      Keep in mind though if we want to talk about true PnP implementation then things like attacking your party members could come into play, which I honestly don't want to implement... so it's something to sacrifice for the indomitable will not stacking.
                      The very existence of flame-throwers proves that some time, somewhere, someone said to themselves, You know, I want to set those people over there on fire, but I'm just not close enough to get the job done.

                      George Carlin

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                      • #12
                        Saulus, I already posted an easy solution to how to fix the Indomitable Will issue in a post above.

                        If the values do not stack but the highest overlap, simply make the Indomitable Will bonus go up to +7 instead of just +4. There - problem fixed and hardly any balance issue with it at all.

                        You avoid tackling the tricky stacking issue by giving the bonus it would offer if it did stack.
                        Maia Nanethiel ~ Moon Elf Female Ranger

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                        • #13
                          You can't get too close to PnP!

                          Let's bring in that Frenzied Zerker team-attacking!

                          And the 8 hour rest timers for casters, plz?
                          Running across the mountains, attacking with an oversized scalpel, cometh Helga Great-Wyrm! And she gives a mighty bellow:
                          "Brace yourself, oh human speck of dust! You are made of meat and I am very hungry!"

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Saulus View Post
                            Some of the pre-reqs got changed for the classes at the moaning of an ex-dev, you see it's hard to get people to work for free without letting them put their mark on things. This is one of the things we are likely to remove as a requirement.

                            As for indomitable will, it may be tricky to get it to stack the will saves correctly as it always takes the higher number, so basically you would have to have logic track whatever is currently applied.... so not AS likely to happen.

                            When it comes to rage and berserk, I do think it would be reasonable for them to be free actions, to me when you're raging and getting pissed off you don't need time to prepare and stand there... it just happens regardless of what you are doing.

                            Keep in mind though if we want to talk about true PnP implementation then things like attacking your party members could come into play, which I honestly don't want to implement... so it's something to sacrifice for the indomitable will not stacking.
                            Yeah, going full PnP with the FB in a PW could lead to some bad situations. If the other changes are implemented, I can't really complain for not breaking your head over trying to fix Indomitable Will -- Steadfast Determination + Greater/Mighty Rage makes up for it anyhow.
                            Raman Aseph - Runescarred Berserker
                            http://www.sundren.org/wiki/index.php?title=Raman_Aseph

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Saulus
                              to me when you're raging and getting pissed off you don't need time to prepare and stand there...
                              Pfeh. Obviously you've never gone Super Saiyan.
                              Originally posted by Cornuto
                              Glad everyone's being extra fucking ridiculous today.

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