Usefullness of healing

[Fezzik]

I've done a little experimenting. And although I don't mind the bandages in general for most of my toons, my toon with the 33 healing skill is pretty much useless with them. Yes, they time that the bandages work is extended, but only by 5 clicks, and the "booster" at the end is not affected. This seems a bit low to me for someone with a skill that high.

A miner with a 33 skill can mine to the core of the earth and still find something; someone with a 33 taunt can taunt just about everyone in a 3 mile radius, 33 stealth can mug the king and not be seen, etc (ok, slight hyperbole, but you get the drift ).

I would keep the extensions AND make the kicker at the end a little more powerful. Otherwise I don't see why anyone would really bother having a high healing skill anymore if you can just use 3 bandages instead of 2 (if you have an uber skill)

[Kajae]

Given the staggering level of injury that "Near Death" would imply, what could a field medic with a heal skill of 33 do?

Maybe stabilize them, stop their bleeding, clot their blood and remove any nasty splinters that could cause infection later, because, as we know, there's no such thing as hygiene in these sort of times. A really good chirurgeon could saw off the twisted, mangled pulp that used to be your arm and cauterize the stump before you black out and die from the massive blood loss and trauma associated with horrific injuries. If they're amazing, maybe they can shove those disemboweled organs back into your hollowed torso and stitch you up, with a lengthy recovery period of six to eight months followed by another two months' physical therapy, as having to lie down during that half a year means your muscles will have atrophied to twigs with rubber bands on.

Sarcasm aside, I think there's a certain believability threshhold to deal with when it comes to character skills. Without magic or divine intervention, you can't convince a sensible person that the sky is green with a bluff check, just like you can't intimidate a Paladin into cowering in mortal fear of you.

The 'Heal' skill seems to represent nonmagical, 'traditional' medicinal practice. You've got some strips of cloth, maybe some mundane regenerative unguent, salve or balm made from pressed and stewed herbs, maybe a scalpel, needle and catgut thread if you're particularly learned. A sword isn't a saw, since the cutting edge is (unless you're a maliciously sadistic swordsman) completely different, so you'll need one of those if you're doing impromptu surgery, which I don't really see happening except upon NPC's.

Take it further, and maybe you break into the Medical Science territory, where you're able to do all sorts of funky (yet still nonmagical) things with biology. Skin grafts, organ transfers, blood transfusions, invasive surgery and the like.


Anyway. The problem I see with a relatively nonmagical skill like Heal is that the simple things like bandages, salves and needlework shouldn't really work as well on high-level character as they do on a low-level character. Mundane medicine for mundane injuries. What you'll get from fighting goblins and bandits consists of such things as contracting lockjaw from rusty metal, having an artery lacerated and bleeding out, or having your lungs punctured and start to fill with your own bodily fluids (which happen every day to people who aren't even engaging in something as dangerous as armed combat). That's just for level 3's and 4's; imagine what the level 20's are dealing with in terms of injuries, since their constitutions have advanced to the point where they can easily shrug off such 'minor' slights as lockjaw or a flooded lung. I don't think a bandage and some herbal goop will do much towards reattaching ten ribs and a spleen.

[caterpillar]

Given the staggering level of ... ... a bandage and some herbal goop will do much towards reattaching ten ribs and a spleen.

I think you misunderstood Fezzik a bit. She's not talking about "reality" as you described it above, but about the game mechanics. She's saying that for obvious reason if the "healing boost" at the end of healing would bring more effective result it would be worth to invest your skill points in healing and I agree.

With the previous healing kit you got the immediate healing bonus when you used it in the fight (D20 + your healing skill), which was big advantage and made the skill very usefull, it's better to be healed (rolled 2) 2+33=35 then 2+0=2 (during the fight). Big difference.

I think, if it would be possible to add higher "final healing boost" or something like bonus during the healing process, for example +1 healing point for every 5 point in the skill? Means silk bandages given instead of +5 healed points +6 with 5 skill points in healing?

[Zoberraz]

Um, the bandage thing is still new to me: I'm still used to healing kits - in fact, I still have some in my gear.

Trickle hp recovery seems nice. What I'm a little baffled on is how to heal poison or disease with the healing skill.

[Quoth The Raven]

Also, HP loss != physical wound in 90% of the cases.

[richardleitch5]

people have a heal skill as low as 33!

[Fezzik]

Richard, shush!

Yes, the general idea is not that the environment is clean and it should be treated as such. I don't see the healing skill as purely a nonmagical skill; there are balms, ointments etc that should help enhance the ability of bandages to work. There are things that worked in pre-medieval times that we lost for nearly two thousand years too - like sanitation and the use of alcohol to keep medical instruments clean. The middle ages is a bad example to historically to look at as a template - if gnomes can bounce around the sky in dirigibles, I suspect that some of the best healers in Faerun have figured out that certain basic understanding of what we would consider crude medical techniques and asepsis .

Anyway, back to the topic more specifically. People can sit in the shadows and not be seen, even if someone is 2 feet away from them with the game mechanics... Uber rogues have pick-pocketed me hiding in the shade of a tree in the middle of daylight. There as to be a bit of magic involved in that.

And I do agree that HP represent a bit more of fatigue involved with battle, not so much physical wounds (consider a boxer being bludgeoned to death as apposed to someone actually being run through with a sword)... if it wasn't that way, logic wouldn't be able to tolerate DnD's system

[MadSeer]

I'd point something out. Fantasy =/= middle age. There's a huge difference and it is filled with anachronism compared to the real time period (even magic and fancy races aside). We're not going to start talking about gnomes creating nuclear energy, but people aren't afraid to take bathes and clean themselves, since there's not a stupid pope to get in the way of that.

And back to the topic ... the guy with 33 heal should be able to provide better healing, even from simple bandages, than the guy with 0. The novice will maybe put a bit of water and randomly strap the bandage - just enough not to bleed to death. But the pro will put ointments and salves to soothe the pain, improve recovery time, stop the bleeding more efficiently and so on. I agree that bandages should be more efficient as the Heal skill grows in ranks.

[BedlamX]

I agree. If you only get use out of a high Heal skill when DM is around to ask for the check, it does lose a lot of its usefullness. It used to add to the heal kit number, why not ad something to the bandages?

No idea how to add this in, cuz I ain't a programmer/scripter by any stretch of the imagination. But it is a legitimate point in my mind.

[Kajae]

I wasn't comparing this to Medieval times. I was comparing this to traditional Fantasy times.

Case in point, soap is not going to be a household item. The best you've got is maybe some herbal remedy of questionable quality garnered from the local apothecary or 'witchlady.' Sure, people take baths, but the average peasant probably won't be scrubbing himself down every day as, without internal plumbing, they have to physically haul the water up from the river/well bucket by bucket.

But to the actual question. Would it be better to have the Heal skill increase the number of ticks per bandage, or the end boost itself?

[Fezzik]

The number of ticks takes time... time you might not have, especially if you have enthusiastic people in your party that go charging off right away and don't allow the bandage time to work. I know one annoying elf that does this and makes my dwarf more than a little grumpy... you know who you are! .

Let the end boost reflect the efficacy of the healer I'd say. Sure, it takes time for the bandage to work, and it also takes a minute or two to feel the effects of a balm or ointment (leaving TigerBalm aside). I've seen boosts of about 1d8 or ad10 from cotton... we could maybe add (up to or some portion of) the healing skill to that?

[krampsburglar]

Usefullness means value.

In this case since you cant use it in the middle of battle it clearly becomes worthless!

Put one point in Heal and call it a day.
A dead skill indeed.

I can see where players with high Heal skill characters, with a lot of time invested, will feel muffed and deep down consider going elsewhere.
So sad.

[Root]

I've found more use for it than my four ranks in Jump!

[Kaizen]

Kaizen has quite the heal skill.

He'd love to be able to 'roll' some nice 'medicinal herbs' for his constant migraines.

[Thief Of Navarre]

I've found more use for it than my four ranks in Jump!

Say that to a frenzied berserker