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  • the Bad.

    Ok, let me start out by saying this.

    1. Ive never been a Crafting Junkie. I like it, I like to collect stuff, and I enjoy gathering all the tools, items, reciepes, ect. I especially like taking points in every skill *Able learner *Grins**, and being versatile*Spelling*. However, I dont like people abusing over powerfull items, and having too much. I really enjoy the way the server is set up, and its low magic. Its like you guys took everything I always wanted to see in a server , and made it. A magic item should fell special when you get one, and its annoying when theres a +1 gen. sword in every shop. I like items with names, the way they should be if there magical and unique. So you guys hit the nail on the head concerning this. . . .and level design, and PnP implementation, which I hope to see much more of, please dont stop the PnP scripting and implementing, its what makes your server special to me.
    More skills scripts, implement swim with the animation I keep seeing on You Tube, use the rolls for each round. Ect. ect. Have places were you can use rope, scripted, instead of manual. In general, keep adding in more rules, and add to the already wonderfull Opposing auto roll system you have.

    Now, here come the flame list.

    Number 1 on the Hit list

    1. Crafting Fatigue: Look, we could argue about this all night, both making valid points, But the fact is , its way to harsh, and too much time to reset. We have lives, most of us at least, and we cant sit around for a month and a half, to wait for our Crafting Fatigue to Drop 60 points. Especially if we depleted Constitution in favor of Int.
    EX. Today , I used my mining skill twice, and gained one piece of Ore, due to a cave in on my second attempt. Currently my Crafting Fatigue is 23!, Really, so now i have to wait, 23 days for it to drop because of my zero Con.?!. Even if i had a Con Modifier, say +2, it still would be extremely ridiculous amount of time.
    Might i humbly suggest an alternative. Make gathering cost a whole hell of a lot less Fatigue, leave that to the Crafting itself to drain it. This will prevent abuse, and get the game moving in the long run. As it stands now, You already wiped out just from using your pick twice. Then you have to wait a month for it to reset, just so you can Try and Craft, Assuming you dont need more of the same Material!!!!!, then you must rinse and repeat. And whos to say that when you go to craft, after 3 months of B.S. you screw up crafting. Do you see were im going with this, its just too much. Even cut in half is too much. I agree that one crafted item per month or two is enough, but as it stands, IT could take months, And most of us dont want to wait that long to have fun, or make one Item. It is a good idea, its just too harsh IMHO. Im not suggesting you wipe out Fatigue for gathering , just lower it alot, and leave the drain to the Actual process. Its kinda ridiculous that my Character cant swing a pike for a month RL! because he swung it six times today, yet he can HACK all day long the heads of Goblins, unlimited.

    2. Resting, heres the Flip side complaint. Even with your restrictions past newbie levels, its still abusable. Might I humbly suggest a much more restrictive rest setting. Such as Every 8 hours Game Time, or 12 hours?
    I remember I really like this setting in NWN, on Savage Frontier. It was much more challenging. Plus, what about ditching the FULL heal during Rest. I mean really, so your 1hp, and you go to sleep and your all better. Nay, Only medicine or Magic can heal you like that. Resting should only restore Spells, meditation time, ect. ect. And based on Con, restore a small amount of HP. Like HCR.
    I would also love to see the food system more involved. I really love what youve done with doning armor/rest. But I would love it even more, if you implemted a Food/Thirst System. It would give an essential meaning to the Skills such as Cook/Fish, making them survival skills, and important.

    The HCR Hak contains pretty much all ive suggested, with custom GUIs for there system, that would fit in nicely with your PW.

    As it stands now, you can Rest Regain / Kill, Rest, Regain, Kill. It conflicts GREATLY with your restrictive, ANTI Abuse policy concerning Crafting. If your going to do it, do it all the way. ITs already the Best server Ive seen for making a game challenging and entertaining without the Pwrgaming/HAck and Slash / and loot Garabage. I understand its BETA, and I appologize if these things have been mentioned/Addressed/or Beating to Death with a stick 10000x, but im new to the forums, and didnt see any thread concerning them *That i could see*.

    Im sticking around here, no matter what the outcome because I love what youve done, and the players are great. I would just love to see it go further, and be more balanced. Restrictive is good, very good, but so is balance. And the way it is now, concerning these few things, bothers me abit. All in All, if i had to choose the one to fix, I would go with Resting, just because Its so off key to me, as far as the rest of your world. But there both extremely important to me. I just dont have time to wait like that for my character to reverse penalties from crafting.

    Thank you for building a Great/Fun/And true D&D Server. Im sure Everyone Appreciates it as much as i do.

    Peace.

    blain_the_mono

  • #2
    The crafting system is going to be overhauled completely. Yours is not the first post pointing out its shortcomings

    Can't say when and how it will be done, GBX might know though.
    sigpic
    Gravity is a myth; Earth just sucks.

    >>> Flame Warriors! <<<

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    • #3
      Its not that its bad, its just too harsh a penalty, WAY WAY WAY too harsh. Way.

      If by completly overhauled, you mean that the system is being redone from the ground up, as in ditching the SoZ *modified* version , for a Sundren Specific version. Great, but the biggy is the penalties and how long they take to recover from.

      I forgot to mention one other thing in the BAD. And this one I Know is in the BEAT THE F@#K out of a Dead Horse List.

      Appearance Changer. However, with a twist. Since there is a robust amount of reciepes, some pertaining to Colors, such as Dye, ect. You wouldnt what to render Crafting for Cosemetics useless, so here lies the problem. However, with a system such as a walk in Tailor, Smith, Ect. WHo you can pay to customize your Items apprearance, For a Hefty, Hefty sum, now that i can see working well , side by side with Crafting. There is a nice custom Apperance Changer on Sigil CoD, where you log in to an OCC room, and it is there, and only there, you can change your appearance. They dont have a cost for doing this though, and That i find would conflict with everything the team has built here. The trick is making crafting far more profitable than just paying someone to do it for you, Cosmostic Wise I mean. Crafting still overrides, and overrules the creation of Power. Im talking strictly cosmetic. Beleave it or not; but im sure you do, the apperance changer was a GREAT, GREAT, Role play aid, as it added variety, and a sense of Immersion not seen before in the Game. Unfortunatly, it has caused problems for various reasons on many servers. This is why most teams implement there own custom versions of Charlies base Mod. I would put this on the list simply because of immersion, and FUN. But i can see the hesitation in doing so for the reasons (youve had it before and got rid of it because of problems)((And, just as important, finding a way to integrate it into the game, without rendering cosmetic crafting useless will take some logic tweaks in the design.

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      • #4
        Complete overhaul. And if you do a Forum search you will see that others have posted about the topic

        For example the most recent:
        http://www.sundren.org/forum/showthr...light=crafting

        And you're right re: Appearance changer and deceased equines. It's been discussed but I can make no promises.

        So yes, really not much point in picking apart what's currently in place.

        We've taken note of the things that went down badly in this syste,, and hopefully the new system will be more to everybody's liking.
        sigpic
        Gravity is a myth; Earth just sucks.

        >>> Flame Warriors! <<<

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by EddieDeanOfNewYork
          Resting, heres the Flip side complaint. Even with your restrictions past newbie levels, its still abusable. Might I humbly suggest a much more restrictive rest setting. Such as Every 8 hours Game Time, or 12 hours?
          I remember I really like this setting in NWN, on Savage Frontier. It was much more challenging. Plus, what about ditching the FULL heal during Rest. I mean really, so your 1hp, and you go to sleep and your all better. Nay, Only medicine or Magic can heal you like that. Resting should only restore Spells, meditation time, ect. ect. And based on Con, restore a small amount of HP.
          I'm just curious, have you played past level 5, yet? Because you only fully heal at level 5 and lower, and that's just because you're being eased into the server at that point. It's for the same reason there're no rest restrictions at these levels. You can rest as often as you like, until you hit level 6.

          At level 6 and up, you can only rest every ten minutes, and you don't heal all your hp. In fact, you only heal hp equivalent to your Level + Survival. Which I actually like, considering it gives the Survival skill more incentive.

          So, your 280 hp warrior at level twenty will still only heal 20 hp every time he rests. Unless he has the Survival skill, then he might be able to heal a little bit more, but nothing dramatic.

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          • #6
            Okay, well first of all this does not belong here... what I see is a long list of SUGGESTIONS. A lot of it is things we finalized a long time ago and don't plan on changing much. As for crafting? Saying anything about it is as good as beating a dead horse to death with an old board with a rusty nail.

            I've almost ripped crafting out so many times just so people won't talk about it anymore and I can focus on way more important things.

            And while we do appreciate the suggestions, we don't have any plans to go and start using the same haks everyone else has been recycling into their worlds. Most of Sundren's code is all custom, we're going to make it ourselves if we want it to perform in manner X.

            Also I'm a little miffed that you mention balance and resting... You're making an observation on something we've seen in place (and refined) for years... It's not going to change bud (at least resting). The staff determines what's balanced because that is entirely in the point of view of the designer. I could have someone argue that Sundren isn't balanced because they can't get level 20 in a week and well... They'd still be wrong.
            The very existence of flame-throwers proves that some time, somewhere, someone said to themselves, You know, I want to set those people over there on fire, but I'm just not close enough to get the job done.

            George Carlin

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            • #7
              This subject is not only in the dead horse list, it was actually eaten by the horse while it was alive then vomited up repeatedly, and is now rotting away next to the dead horse.

              Nuff said.
              Lorlen Locke: "Amazing how the righteous commit acts of tyranny and terror almost as beautiful as our own under their banner of "good". We merely call a spade a spade."

              "If you can't learn to do something well, learn to enjoy doing it poorly."

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