Barbarians and leather working

[nox74]

Hello, I'm kinda new to the server and I'm enjoying it very much.

I'm not very much familiar with the crafting system too, but I've noticed that the "Craft: Tailoring & Leatherwork" is not one of the class skills for barbarians.

I understand that Tailoring is such a big word for a barbarian, nevertheless he/she should be more than able to craft his own leather boots, fur mantle and stuff like that.

Just my two cents.

[Kaizen]

I understand that Tailoring is such a big word for a barbarian

You should be able to do this now, just because of the hilarious sentance.

[Kaeldorn]

Barbarians break things. Making things would conflict with their principles

[Usurper]

Well on a serious note,a barabarian should be able to work leather and hides along with being all Conanish.

[Kaeldorn]

They could, but it needn't be a class skill. A barbarian could possibly fix his own gear a bit, but would be more likely to depend on other tribesmen to actually make things, which would require patience, study and precision. All three of which barbarians aren't exactly known for.

As for Conan, remember that dude was also a thief. He's like a Rogue/Barbarian multiclass kind of guy in D&D terms (granted, mostly barbarian). Not really the all muscle, no wits character Arnold portrayed in the movie.

[nox74]

Just found it odd that actually Armorsmithing Weaponsmithing and Woodworking are class skill, while Leatherwork is not. Making an armor should require more skill than crafting fur boots, something that implies skinning a savage beast which is hella Conanish.


Also CROMMM!

[Doubtful]

Meh,

Barbarians, going by the traditional tribal mentality put forward by most of the source books, seem to have a strong code of honour and hierarchical social system. Given that it seems bizarre in the extreme that Lawful is a forbidden alignment for Barbarians.

It's almost as if the source books are contradictory nonsense.

On topic though; it does make more sense for a barbarian to be able to repair and make simple cloth and leather items - Having 'Survival' as a class skill implies that they are capable of looking after themselves out there, hunting, catching, skinning and preparing animals in wilderness conditions, stands to reason anyone with strong survival kills could repair, maintain and create their own equipment.

[Kaeldorn]

I agree with you that the barbarian class has quite some contradictions going on around it the way it was implemented in D&D, especially with the alignment. I guess the non-lawful bit was based on a lack of self control and little regard for rules and laws dictated by other environments than their own. Alignments in D&D can often be a hard thing to work with.

The woodworking I intended for creating primitive equipment to use as makeshift weaponry. Tailoring/Leatherworking is usually much more delicate. Armorsmithing and weaponsmithing I didn't dare to remove as class skills because it would be taking stuff away from already existing characters. I would have done so otherwise...

I could make tailoring/leatherworking available to barbarians, I'm just not sure if it's desireable or not. The thought of making them able to knit pretty dresses and sew fine and sleek leather garments for utmost comfort and deft movement scares me.

[nox74]

I could make tailoring/leatherworking available to barbarians, I'm just not sure if it's desireable or not.

Please, please pretty please with sugar on top ?

Seriously, I think that Tailoring and Leatherworking should be two separate things, now I dont know if it's doable or not and for sure it would have an impact on already existing chars so... thumb down, anyhow I'm pleased that the possibility of making it a class skill has been taken into consideration.

[Kaeldorn]

Having them as two separate skills would make them not all too appealing in the array of items that could be created. It's for the same reason that woodworking has staves, spears, shields, bows and arrows (and even some armour).

It needs to feel like it's worth the skillpoints invested, especially because you're already so limited in how much you can pick as most classes.

[gbbishop]

Well I think that the distinction lies in the question: What kind of barbarian are you? Are you the savage break things muscle bound Arnold type? Or is it because you live a tribal style life? Perhaps you are merely CALLED barbarian because you kill six chickens on the full moon and think punji sticks is a children's game. So you have a bit of an anger management problem, you still know how to put a sole back on you boot and knowing this if someone taught you how to sew pearls on a blouse you could in all likelihood do so... but really are you going to? I doubt it.

That said i would like to see this second option at least available.

And personally I don't see any problem with opening up all craft skills to all classes. I supports the fact that Sundren wants a player based economy.

If Johny-Redblade fighter wants to knit who is to stop him. He just has to put up with the other Redblades calling him a sissy girl, but again his choice.

Pretty sure that any instance put forth to support denying X-craft as a class skill can be met with another instance equally valid for allowing said craft as a class skill.

Then again there is gonna be someone who puts together a combination that is aberrant and possibly exploitative. And that same thing could be said for other class skill too, like why can't Shadow Bane Stalkers bluff (which they TOTALLY should be able to do... sorry I HAD to throw that one in it is a particular sore spot for me )

Anyway there DOES have to be a limit, I just don't feel it overly necessary when applied to craft.. or even profession skills for that matter.

FREE COMMERCE! OPEN CRAFT/PROFESSION! (totally not making a demand here just thought it was a funny campaign slogan)

[Doubtful]

The thought of making them able to knit pretty dresses and sew fine and sleek leather garments for utmost comfort and deft movement scares me.

I am so sorry...


Urtak BrightDoe, Son of Maug, husband of Thriss, watched the Red Ascot war party pick their way across the plain. He smiled a grizzled and broken smile, the years of war and raiding had left hs face a mess of scars, some from fighting, but most from victory rituals.

His war party was the stronger, the Red Ascots always made mistakes. He turned and regarded the brave warriors he would fight, and perhaps die, alongside.

Chirpy Quickbuck, her hourglass figure complimented by a cinch belt, narrowing her waist and enhancing her curves. A fine pair of knee length boots masked her ankles, something she had always been concerned about.

Conran Elkeater, a man who seemed to mostly consist of shoulders, stood proudly by. Today, in order to conceal some of his innate mass, he had opted for a darker shirt and short jacket, hoping draw attention away from his torso and towards his legs.

Thrumstrong Oakmember, a lean and willowy man, had chosen to go with his natural assets. He wore a traditional three piece suit in charcoal grey, his hair pushed crudely to one side, giving him the air of some forlorn but romantic gentleman.

Urtak adjusted his cravat. The preppy, pastel pullover wearing Red Ascot tribe had no chance.

[Kaeldorn]

Doubtful... that is just...

*cries*

Heh.

Shadowbane Stalkers don't get bluff, diplomacy or perform because they aren't the kind that get out in the open and then out of trouble through smooth-talking. They are scouts, spies that stay in the shadows until the cavalry comes in usually, and silent killers in the name of their deity if need be. They get intimidate to shut people who discover them up, without slitting their throats if they would rather not do that. And also to incite fear in their target if a head-on approach needs to be taken to dispatch of someone, or get the personal guards of some evil lord to back down and turn tails. Gather information is there to blend in and discover more about their targets without ever saying too much that could reveal them and endanger their mission.

Their heavy basis on charisma is there because they rely on a strong personality and conviction to a cause, which gives them a powerful, almost scary and overwhelmingly zealous presence. It's an entirely different form of charisma from what a bard would use. The popular hero figure that best compares to a Shadowbane Stalker is probably Batman, but then with a religious connection.

But me = going off-topic :S

I have considered to make crafts/professions open to all BASE classes, with restrictions remaining on prestige classes. The reason I did not was because I hoped for a community-driven trade, where noone could be entirely self-reliant as far as skills go. Problem is, wizards still get it all. And the crafts I wanted to strip them of most (you can probably guess which two) were suggested by staff to be kept available to them.

[gbbishop]

I will talk to you about SBS and bluff some other time. I took able learner so it is a moot point. Hopefully I will show you how useful lies are in netting evil heads.
MUAHHHAHAHAHHH!

On a serious note I think that the fatigue system drives home the "you can't do it all by yourself" mentality.

sure you CAAAAANN but you want to mine adamant, make a suit of adamant armour AND enchant it. you are looking at ~ 90 (not sure but this should be close) fatigue guess who's not making anything else for a while?

I also submit this for consideration, the most successful crafters since the new systems implementation have been those in a guild or tribe. (3C's or the Glunklerift Family come to mind)

[grant]

I have considered to make crafts/professions open to all BASE classes, with restrictions remaining on prestige classes. The reason I did not was because I hoped for a community-driven trade, where noone could be entirely self-reliant as far as skills go. Problem is, wizards still get it all. And the crafts I wanted to strip them of most (you can probably guess which two) were suggested by staff to be kept available to them.

Now I am definitely not suggesting you change it, (I can imagine the nightmare) but was making all the crafts feats like the enchanting crafts ever considered? It would definitely take away the high INT/WIS advantage Mages and Clerics get and solve the disadvantage that classes with few skill points/level.