Stonebody, Cleric/FS spell

[Kaizen]

Needs a tone down, I think.

[Phantom Lamb]

I have a problem with 3.5's implementation in NWN2 because of buffing in general. In PNP, buffing isn't as crazy, because you need to plan out "reserve" spells over a 24 hour period (or between long rests). In NWN2, think about how often we rest--very frequently! The time translation is what made the implementation of all buffs fail, in my eyes.

What I would prefer to see is a limit of the number of buffs you can cast on any person at any one time. I agree with your assessment here, but I think it wouldn't be an issue if folks could only have a few buffs active at once.

[Silas North]

I wouldn't say this spell is an auto-win.

The 10 DR/cold iron or silver that Favored Souls get is not til lvl 20. So they have to be a PURE build to get that perk. And adamantine DOES cut through this. I don't know if its a bug or what was originally intended, but it does.

Os has bested clerics with this spell up constantly. In fact, he's never lost a 1 on 1 duel with a cleric or FS and EVERYone of them (or at least the ones I am counting) used this spell, had just as good gear as Os, and no more than 1-2 levels below or above Os. Some other people I seen actually whoop clerics with this spell without being clerics or wizard/sorc builds themselves includes: Hano, Lauan, Alyrian (warlocks are kinda mage-ish I guess though), Mad Jack, and Logan (brilliant use of traps).

I'm not here to argue or start a 'class war' though because I still agree with you fully. Everyone in the list above except Alyrian and Logan had adamantine weapons and probably would have lost the fight(s) if their weapons were not made of such. Stone Body is number 3 on my "Top 5 Spells that Could Stand to be Nerfed" list, right behind Bigby's Forceful Hand and Bigby's Interposing Hand.

A 6 sec/CL duration + no way to remove the downsides would be a good idea. Another idea would be taking away just a few of the spell's perks. In a lower-magic server, all DR needs to be toned down a little I think. However, I'd say I have more issues with the elemental reductions of this spell.

I really like PL's idea too. If there were some way to put in a "buff points" sort of thing where every character had a set number of BP and every buff took some of that number away and left it restored when removed, that would awesome. Clerics, Bards, Favored Souls, Druids, etc would now have only a set limit of buffs they could put on at one time on themselves or others. That way, a buff like Stone Body could take a whole mess of BP and you probably wouldn't need to nerf it at all. I imagine something like that would be ridiculously insane to program in though lol

[richardleitch5]

not all clerics get this spell, its more of a mage one with clerics getting it if they got the right god.

[Silas North]

I think you might be thinking of Iron Body.

Stone Body EVERY cleric can get once they reach the capability of casting lvl 6 spells.

[GodBeastX]

Casters get buffing bonuses in NWN2 they wouldn't get in P&P as well because some spells stack that shouldn't. Clerics, for example, are able to stack low level saving spells with high level saving spells and get like +80 to saves. That's not possible in P&P.

I'm not really up for nerfing clerics right now until the equipment situation gets sorted out. I mean, clerics may have a lot of power, but a lot of that is subject to dispels. Right now I'm more worried about underpowered people than OP ones I guess.

And some of that may have to do with the resting system. The old necropolis used to spawn creatures on people when they rested. Other areas may need similar mechanics. And persistent spell is kind of major for casters as well. I know servers that just rip that metamagic feat out completely.

[TheBlankStare]

I was actually thinking about the resting mechanic that we've got in Sundren the other day and I think that's really where the problem lies. The spells are fine the way they are but anyone who can cast spells rests at every available opportunity and rebuffs. This is the biggest thing that makes casters so overpowered and why every high level caster seems to walk around almost fully buffed most of the time.

GBX has the right idea about spawning things when you rest but I think it should have a percentage chance in most areas instead of having it automatically happen like the old Necropolis. That chance could be increased or decreased based on the intended threat level for each area. It might even be possible to lower the percentage chance by up to half again based on a Survival or Hide skill check (it shouldn't ever completely negate the chance).

The easiest (and probably short term) solution might be to just increase the "rest timer." Right now you can rest every ten minutes. I'd recommend increasing that time to every twenty or even thirty minutes outside of "safe" resting areas like the ones in the Viridale. The downside to this is that it has the possibly of increasing the amount of "carebearing" that goes on. For the low levels I'd leave the resting rules the same in the goblin hills and the sewers in Sundren at ten minutes.

We could also make resting possible in wilderness areas only in places that are "safe." A chance of having those sites guarded by monsters would also be nice so that you couldn't be guaranteed of having a safe place to rest be readily available.

[Peridan]

The only problem I see with TBS's statement is the last bit about having monster guarding the safe areas. I can speak from personal experience that when my character's have about ten hitpoints left, fighting a horde of monsters to get to a safe zone is not what I would call a great situation. I agree with making the wilderness difficult and challenging, but those safe areas should be 'safe' in my opinion.

Edit: And to stay on topic, as a whole I agree the buffs need to either be toned down, or other non-buffers pumped up a bit. Stonebody is a good example, as is practically any wizard spell.

[Kaizen]

Seriously. Tone it down.

[Silas North]

Sort of like a cooldown similar to the Duelist's Flourish or the Bard's more powerful songs? That's actually a pretty cool idea. Not sure if it alone would fix everything, but the concept in itself is very interesting.

[Bishop Cornelius]

I would much rather see a cooldown timer than a nerf... ...nerfing is bad because:

1.) casters have to have spells active to be at the height of their game, otherwise they sink to the level of a (fighter, in the case of cleric) less than half of their level (because of the stat differences)... even at 20 minutes at level 20 that still leaves 2/3 of every hour that if clerics can not find a safe spot to rest or are caught off-guard that non-casters can easily prevail

2.) fighters are always at the height of their game...

3.) and rogues can easily catch casters off guard

[Kaizen]

Tone it down. This amp don't like to be set on eleven.

[Redjack]

I believe clerics are supposed to be tough, sturdy, and potent. This trendy idea to equalize all classes doesn't make sense to me. After all a high level wizard or cleric should be more difficult to tangle with then a fighter. All a fighter has to do is seek out a caster to buff him and watch out he will take your head off. My fighter pc has learned to not go charging up the Schild without being buffed. Would you expect a expert swords man to be the equal of Fzoul Chembryl or a Elminster? Ok perhaps those two over kill examples but you get my point.

[Kaizen]

Just suggesting a tone down on Stone Body.

[Silas North]

Bishop makes a good point. In many ways a buff fighter NEEDS their buffs to be able to do anything. You ever try fighting as a cleric, bard, or druid without your buffs? A dire kitten could slay you.

If fighter-esque builds were inferior, Lauan would not have been the winner in the Thayan tournament with the only one person really putting up much of a fight against her being another fighter-esque build (Dwarven Defender). If they were inferior, Mad Jack would not have been as feared as he was (Barbarian/FB build dishing out around 50-60 dmg a blow WITHOUT critting. He was laughing at DR BEFORE he got his adamantine blade of uber-slaying).

It's just a few spells in particular I'm iffy about and think could use a minor weakening and not just Stone Body.