Sense Motive

[Bishop Cornelius]

Shouldn't clerics get sense motive as a class skill?

[Gurkak]

Per D&D 3.5 edition bards, monks, paladins, and rogues recieve the skill. Rangers gain a bonus to sense motive versus their favored enemies but do not have it as a class skill.

So the answer is -- no.

There's always the Able Learner feat on NWN 2 though.

[Elusa]

Except clerics don't get enough skill points to make it worth it, and their feats are better spent on metamagic. So yeah.

[richardleitch5]

Except clerics don't get enough skill points to make it worth it, and their feats are better spent on metamagic. So yeah.

Depends how you want the build to be.

[ZubMessiah]

Yes, you're right. Someoen might want the build to be bad.

[GodBeastX]

*Has wonderful DM item goodies for people who build personality over power*

[ReverberateEcho]

Scathing and inflammatory comments rarely make for productive discourse, ZubMessiah.

I'd hardly say that a Cleric that took one feat besides Metamgic, possibly raising their Int a little bit for more skill points, and maybe even one level of a class with Sense Motive as a class skill as being an irrefutably 'bad' build.

Not to mention, not everyone makes a build purely for power, but some make it for the background of their character.

But, hey, if you think there's only one way to make a build good, that's your prerogative.

[BedlamX]

lol...I don't think any of my toons can be called "power builds." I also don't think any of my clerics have ever had any meta magic feats. Well...except the crappy mystic theurge wannabe with still spell (and that was just cuz I thought it would be fun to throw magic missiles in full plate ).

I think I have taken sense motive on one character and it almost never gets used. Surprise, surprise...he is a cleric (and Shadowbane Stalker). The skill, while a really cool concept, is massively underused on the server. I've seen it used a few times, but usually in a way that really didn't do much good. Maybe it's because there doesn't seem to be any guidance on what DC to use for what motives. Maybe it's just because people don't trust others to actually abide by a good roll that would pretty much out their character. Maybe it's just because the skill doesn't make your toon more powerful in a fight.

Who knows? I just hate seeing "roll play" over "role play." People spamming a dozen skills until they get a good roll annoys me. And I always forget to actually roll a skill when I should due to that little quirk of my personality. A lot of you guys remind me and ask for rolls (especially DMs), and I want to thank you for that.

[GodBeastX]

Notice I didn't say RP Builds. I said "Personality". It's hard to interact with people who are "Too cool for this school"

[ZubMessiah]

Now you're just being silly.
Building a cleric without metamagic feats means you're most certanly bad at building, or picking cleric for other reasons such as free feats (powerbuild) or access to divine whatnots (power build aswell)

You're neither high nor mighty. Don't tell me how to be me.

As for characters built over personality rather than power... That can only be done so far... Making a nice weapon master with able learner for diplomacy means very little when you can just roleplay the niceness and make as many friends, etc... But I digress and this is the wrong thread; clerics don't have Sense Motive becuase they don't, whether or not it makes sense.

[DM_Equinox]

Zub, it is called an RP build (or personality build, thanks GBX), not being "bad at building". Please remember that not everyone sees his build as a war-machine.

Nobody should tell anybody what is "the right way" to build their character.

[Phantom Lamb]

Enough with the drama. Please review what you post before you post it. We're not here to make enemies over something as simple as this. Stay on topic and stay friendly, or simply don't post. Thanks--

[GodBeastX]

I think I have taken sense motive on one character and it almost never gets used. Surprise, surprise...he is a cleric (and Shadowbane Stalker). The skill, while a really cool concept, is massively underused on the server. I've seen it used a few times, but usually in a way that really didn't do much good. Maybe it's because there doesn't seem to be any guidance on what DC to use for what motives. Maybe it's just because people don't trust others to actually abide by a good roll that would pretty much out their character. Maybe it's just because the skill doesn't make your toon more powerful in a fight.

You probably don't run into the situation it's required often. Sense Motive counters Bluff and it helps to determine if people are under mental dominance. Essentially it's "Is this person acting strange?" Essentially having 0 sense motive means your susceptible to trickery, nothing more.

[Thief Of Navarre]

I've tried personality over power and Im often rewarded with death!

Peligiri is my first and best character yet has only attained level 9 ~ 27 months old
Falmari is probably my least well played character RP wise because he is CN and I can mess with his mentality a bit. Level 16 ~ 20 Months old.

Back on topic I think clerics have few enough skillpoints and if you want to cross class sense motive ranks over spellcraft and concentration be my guest for I will give no quarter!
Its a really nice skill on sundren btw; I love that bluff has a counterskill for some classes ^^

[Kaeldorn]

Sense Motive used to be one of my most often used skills in social/conversational RP, even if it was just to get a hunch if someone was 'telling me everything' or not. It's easy to just assume your character always perceives everything the same way you do as a player, paranoid as we are, but it's not necessarily more fun. Sometimes, rolling the dice and playing your character as ignorant of the situation can provide better RP. And once people find out you are willing to RP such weakness, they will also be more cooperative if you make an arranged roll and you do succeed.

Still, whether it should be used or not whilst keeping it fun is really up to the players involved. Just rolling and telling the other player he is obliged to answer = not cool.