Improvements to Summon Spells

[Vicissitudes]

Well, coming from the perspective of someone playing a wizard specialising in summoning creatures... as things stand at the moment, summon spells are on this server, ineffective and pointless, and greatly detract from the feasibility of RPing a summoner.

Not in terms of monster power. I think as things stand, the power of creatures is appropriate according to the levels you get them at. However, the durations for summoning spells are absurdly low, it's not feasible using them.

The default duration in NWN2 and that used on the server, is that of PnP. I understand that. However, there are immense differences between PnP and NWN2 that make the duration... dare I say, "unfair". In PnP, the monsters summoned are multiple potentially, and more powerful. And furthermore, it is easier in PnP to efficiently direct the actions of summons so that they ARE effective, on a round-to-round basis.

In NWN2, when you summon, it typically takes a few moments for the summon to do anything, and you waste precious time issuing orders, instructions... it has pathfinding problems and you cannot direct its actions to make it efficient and useful given the small duration it lasts for. Frequently, at levels 1-6, you summon a monster, and if you're very lucky it gets off one or two hits for a low amount of damage, and then disappears.

So, basically, I'd like to petition for the Summon Monster spells, and potentially others, to be lengthened in duration to make the summons actually useful even at lower levels, but no more powerful in terms of what is summoned than they are currently.

At the moment, times are vaguely 6secs/level for summons. Ideally, it'd be nice to increase this to 30secs/level or 60secs/level. This, in my opinion, would be balanced. Summons can still be neutralised, and last long enough to justify a mage creatively using spells to buff their summon, which now lasts longer than a piddling 40-60 seconds max.

[Silas North]

Did you try the planar binding spells?

[Vicissitudes]

No. I'm not that high level enough, yet. Plus, from memory, those are quite good. I'm speaking more of the lowlevel "summon monster i, ii," etc variety.

[Iso]

I agree, I would never even consider memorizing those spells at their current settings, a Magic Missile would be more effective.

[wangxiuming]

Take Augment Summoning feat! It should help ... a little, anyway. =X

[Vicissitudes]

I am planning on doing so. But as things stand at the moment, the Summons, even IF made slightly stronger with Augment Summoning, don't actually last long enough to see much combat.

[Thief Of Navarre]

They were a minute a level and NWN1 and it was extremely unbalanced because even low level wizards (myself included) could walk around with summoned beasts all the time thus reducing the need for partying.

impe; At lvl9 Falmari's summoned animals last enough for a whole encounter. A dire boar can take out an enemy of equal level in a couple of rounds.

[Vicissitudes]

Fair enough, though at the moment, things seem to be unbalanced the other way. Maybe some happy middle ground? Cos as things stand at the moment, my summoner's summon spells are an absolute waste.

[The Almight Red]

I largely thought the same. 60 seconds/level seems a bit too much, especially with a 10 minute rest timer. To be honest, 10 minutes isn't really that long, and if the summons are 60 seconds/level, they're going to easily last the majority of the time, if not longer.

However, even 2 or 3 rounds/level would be preferable, in my opinion. Or do something perhaps like 10 rounds + 1/level like some other spells?

I simply have to agree with what Vic said. This isn't PnP, and you can't micromanage things each round, which makes it very hard to find use of these summoning spells in a video game. And the idea that someone wants to play a summoner is something that's pretty darn cool.

[Thief Of Navarre]

There are some classes that allow you to summon creatures for extended periods of time. (although I would like to see more)

Druids get a companion and have full progression for spells
Palemasters although more undead inclined have special summons
Blackguards gets a VERY powerfull undead creature.


-The Thaumaturgist from the dungeon masters guide is a good PrC that builds on planar summoning. > http://www.d20srd.org/srd/prestigeCl...umaturgist.htm

-The Narfell demonbinder (cant find a link)

both are interesting summoning classes; just off the top of my head

[black hand]

I agree at lower levels, summons don't have much in the way of uses except for springing traps. They are only good at distracting the enemy long enough for you to try quickly dispatch them before the summon leaves... which is usually before the fight ends anyways. Once you reach level 6 where the resting rules come into place, Summons aren't worth the spell slot until you reach level 9-13 where they last a bit longer and pack a little more punch... (there's always the nightmare, which is an awsome level 5 spell for wizards, but it can leave a black mark on your alignment whenever you cast it due to the evil description...and the planar binding of the same level does not hold a candle to it...Hmmm, Nightmare or doggy? Guess I'll be the bad guy. )

I have seen some servers in both NWN1 and NWN2 that did have summons last in the minute/level catagory, and although it could unbalance things party-wise due to the multitude of soloing casters, I noticed that every site that implemented the extended duration had summons 'take' XP away from the groups using them. Which lead to very few people abusing the extended summon settings. Perhaps if there was consideration put into this type of summoning setting, one could have the Augment Summon feat negate the XP loss rather than extend the duration.

[Verrath]

Well... I don't recall my druid's summons lasting very long even at level 9 or higher, and it was a bit pointless to make use of them at all - not even in RP, where they would make a lot of sense for a druid.

I'd love it if their duration was lengthened some.

[Redjack]

I would be very pleased if summons stayed around longer. One of my characters uses them frequently.

[Thief Of Navarre]

I was (dare I say it) soloing some of the cartel with Falmari and I summoned a Dire boar (which is 4th circle, I possess 5th) which systematically killed everything on the screen within its duration. I really cant see this as a low duration at higher levels...

When Vigo or Taranagil scale the veritas stronghold with their elemental summons they seem to last a crazy amount of time as well!

[black hand]

Those are effective, true enough. Yet those spells at that level they are being cast at is what makes them seem long. Many-a-caster at lower levels, or characters with mixed classes have the luxury of their summons to be primarily trapspringers, or I-need-a-distraction-to-escape fodder.

Mind you, even with the short durations, I have and do make use of the summons with my lower level characters. They just need to be used for quick and direct purposes and you would not want to waste time casting a buff or two on it as by the time you're done, they disappear.