Dual Wielding and Weapon Spec Together

[Chiangtao]

Due to the requirements of the divine caster prestige class, I'll need to weapon spec in something. I've been going longsword on other servers and been moderately happy.

Problem is, I am dual wielding. So, I only get that bonus in one hand with a longsword spec. I am a bard, so using a shield won't work well unless mithral is in abundance.

The way I see it, I have three options:

- Longsword spec, dual wield with longsword and a small weapon. Spec bonuses for one hand only, but only -2 / -2 penalty for dual wielding.

- Longsword spec, dual wield two longswords. Bigger dual wield penalty, but might pay off in later levels when I have more feats in longsword like power critical.

- Spec in a small weapon like shortsword, and dual wield two shortswords. -2/-2 penalty, spec bonuses for both hands, but less damage due to weapon size.

Yes, I know bard / DC is a silly combination, but it's not supposed to be a powerful character. It's fun RP! But I would like to optimize it to make him somewhat strong.

Any thoughts on what the best combo would be here? I'm not a DnD head by any means. Maybe I should go with a rapier spec instead, taking advantage of the larger crit range so power criticals become more useful down the road?

[Glare Bear]

Meh exotic weapon proficiency and scythe worked wonders for my 2 bards

[Pulseczar]

Meh exotic weapon proficiency and scythe worked wonders for my 2 bards

Scythe is not exotic. It's martial. Same with kukri.

[Glare Bear]

Gah really? This is going back to nwn1 so I haven't tried. Strange but ok. Same difference though. A bard can use a two handed weapon without penalty. Also you need a ridiculous dex to get the dual wielding feats.

[Maxx Powers]

I'd say go with the two short sword, you lose, on average, one damage per hit, but you gain two attack bonus, thats probably a good trade off.

Oh, and the rapiers, you'll get the same penalies as the longswords, with the base damage of short swords, for a higher critical, your choice...

[Esteten]

Also you need a ridiculous dex to get the dual wielding feats.

19 to be precise

[Glare Bear]

Yea like I was saying from a purely "I want my character to be able to hold up" I recommend a two handed weapon. You save yourself a ton of feats, dont have to max out in dex on the off chance your strength is high so be it, you get the 1.5 bonus but that's not such a big deal (I think bards get bulls strength?) but also I'm almost positive they get keen weapon too which is a nice bonus for two handers. Bear in mind bards also have a lower AB, dual wielding will lower it a bit more, not a huge amount but they're already at a disadvantage.

[Paerin]

19 only applies to Greater Dual Wield (or whatever it's called). IMHO this is a mostly useless feat for anyone not fighter based, as it gives you a -10 to AB.

Plug in the fact that you will already have a -2 from dual wielding you are looking at a -12 AB on your 3rd attack for the offhand. Unless you have uber high magical items of +5 this last attack will mostly be useless at high levels.

The tradeoff of an additional 4 DEX points isn't really worth it. You would be better off going for a 15 DEX and putting the other 4 points in STR.

Of course that is just my opinion (I am creating a very similar character with fighter / rogue levels and I went Longsword / Shortsword.)

[Esteten]

Another attack is another attack! :O

[Glare Bear]

Less attacks with higher damage is just as good, at least you'll hit more too.

[Paerin]

Another attack is another attack! :O

Unless it never hits anything. The laws of diminishing returns applies here. You are spending a TON of ability points towards something that isn't really effective.

For example:

• 4 STR vs 4 DEX = +2 AB, +damage
• 4 DEX = additional AB (if finesse), additional AC (if light/medium), 1 additional attack (-12AB).
• 4 INT vs 4 DEX = 2 additional skill points per level.
• 4 CON vs 4 DEX = 2 additional hitpoints per level (40 extra hp!)
• 4 WIS vs 4 DEX = Additional will save
• 4 CHA vs 4 DEX = 4 Additional spell levels + bonus spells

From a defensive standpoint DEX might be worth it if you wear light armor. And it will help your AB if you are a weapon finesse fighter. I still think the 3rd offhand attack is worthless, but the other benefits might be good for you. So if you are going the 2 shortsword route, take weapon finesse and grab the extra feat (as your dex should already be high).

If you are going with a non-finesse weapon (longsword) stay away from the extra feat because your dex doesn't help with much past +3 (16) anyway.

[Maxx Powers]

Another attack is another attack! :O

Yea, who knows, he could just roll 20's on that -10 off-hand

[Cheatcake]

The third attack with a -10 sounds scary, but people forget it just means you get an attack with the exact same bonus as your regular, non-offhand 3rd attack Saying it's bad is the same as saying just the first two attacks you get count

[Esteten]

It's a 1/20 that's 5%! ^^

[Glare Bear]

This is given like 3 dual wielding feats and weapon finesse for a bard... As opposed to none. Also strength gives you carrying capacity and is used for roleplay purposes just like dex is. With a 2 handed weapon +4 strength is 3 damage which on a critical with a scythe is actually 12 damage difference. Bear in mind if you want a decent strength to even deal an ok damage while using weapon finesse at ludicrous levels of dexterity you have to sacrifice other stats even if just for roleplay. Like intelligence wisdom and charisma (con if you'll actually roleplay yourself as sickly.)
The difference stat wise is you don't need to max strength to use the two handed weapon, it just gives a tad more damage and some extra AB, with dual wield you need to absolutely have a high dex to get those feats.

I think my first bard had 20 or 22 with strength items and bulls strength (this was an epic calibur nwn1 server bear in mind). I still managed to critical for roughly 175 with a scythe +3. Tone it down a lot for this server, say 18 strength and a +1 scythe, that might still hit for almost 100 or so. This is with almost no build itself, simply wielding a scythe, having a semi ok strength and most likely improved critical which most melee wind up with anyway.

Bear in mind as well most characters here won't reach level 20, so to get that 19 dex in a reasonable amount of time you'll have to start it higher then 15.