DnD 4E Thread

[Phantom Lamb]

Hey, why not? What's everyone's thoughts on 4E, for those who have read or bought it?

Personally, I like most of the changes, of which their are many. The general idea seems to be to give each class value in all kinds of fights and interactions. Clerics, for example, aren't devoid of skills anymore. Wizards, in another example, have At Will abilities that are useful in every fight instead of having to save up with "big whammies" for big fights like they did previously.

I think our nature as people is to resist change, but we'll come to like this more and more in the future.

Who else has some thoughts?

[EndsBeginning]

Well I've played a few games of it, and I can't really say I care for it. The battles took way too long, there isn't much you can really do out of combat, and worst of all, every player has to bring 15 d20s to figure out which minions are killed. Also you can't really customize as much, there aren't many PrC,s and the multiclassing "feats" aren't great.

[Phantom Lamb]

Well, keep in mind, more classes and PRCs are sure to come. This was released this summer.

[Supreme Taco]

This is my outlook on 4E -- They've simplified this version greatly to make it more accessible to more players. They are knocking off a lot of Gods, removing a lot of rules; e.g. Paladins can no longer 'fall'. Ever. Once they obtain their powers as a Paladin, they can do whatever they want without fear of repricussion, and can also be a paladin of any deity.

They seem to be making this game lean more towards World of Warcraft instead of continuing the traditional D&D. Which isn't a bad move, for them. It just sucks for me because I left World of Warcraft to play NWN2 (D&D). I enjoy the complicated lore and sophisticated classes.

[Kaybrie]

Dungeons and Dragons fourth edition is essentially alot of good idea's put together by a monkey in my eyes. Keep in mind while reading my post that this is all heavily opinionated and I in no way condemn others for choosing fourth edition over third, these are just my own personal observations regarding fourth edition dungeons and dragons.

Warlocks with unique paths? Great!
Dragonborn/Tiefling base race? Awesome!
More techniques for the otherwise mundane classes? Sweet!
Unconsciousness is still factored in at higher levels? Badass!

Most of the system however makes me face palm with such force as to push my eyes out of the back of my skull! Multiclassing had nothing wrong with it and now a character has no carrier move to make save for the very begining of his epic adventure. And once that decision has been made, that's it, period. As Taco said, Paladins can't fall, wizards can't give up magic, fighters are always going to be idiots with a sword, and the only way you can go into another class is through a MASSIVE sacrafice of feats that typically is only going to cripple your character.

Moving right along wizards died to me in 4th edition, and have been replaced with what should all to obviously be identified as a "Lol i throw fireballz" class. With the obvious choices for the character to move along his paragon/epic paths is Warmage - Arch Mage as so you can use your 'final spell' three times in an encounter (All at the effect of your final spell being the 'final spell' mind you), because everything else is inferior on such a level as to make anyone but the most hardcore roleplayers disinterested.

They annihilated energy drain, stat drain, instant death, animate dead, summoning spells, most roleplaying spells (L.O.L. @ rituals), a unique crafting system, the best magical items, animal companions and unique mounts, not to mention stabbing a serrated knife into the hearts of some of the best classes in dungeons and dragons such as the Paladin whom as was said cannot fall, the wizard who now just blows shat up, the ranger is now just an advanced archer/two weapon fighter instead of a defender of the natural world with nature related abilities . . . And the total elimination of the Barbarian, Bard, Druid, Monk and Sorcerer classes. But oh! You can totally buy more books to get info on those classes. Sorry, but from the sounds of it I'll have to spend about 200 dolars on Dungeons and Dragons 4th ed books just to get the information I would have got standard out of the PHB 3.5.

Positive points;

-Simple, easy to learn
-Great for high-fantasy roleplayers who don't want to learn rules
-Less eye-strain then WoW.
-New interesting base classes and races.
-Exclusion of Gnomes. (Whether you like it or not, most gnome players were only playing gnomes to be jerk-offs.)
-Will translate great into a game.

Negative points;

-Too simple for hardcore DnD fans.
-Loss of several great classes/over simplification of others.
-Feels very samey (All the classes act and feel the same in the table top)
-Roleplaying has been shoved aside in the books for the sake of cramming more rules in.
-Too safe, characters seem to actually have to work at dieing. (Though this could easily be a positive point.)

In conclusion, fourth edition seems like crap when I look at it as a roleplaying system, and for table top I'll stick to 3.5 DnD and if I want to play something similar to 4th I'll play a small-scale game of Warhammer. However, once they do make a game out of it I will likely showed renewed interest and make the purchase, perhaps just in time for Neverwinter Nights 3, or a similar Baldurs gate title. As the roleplaying in an online environment would likely be a vast improvement on NWN 1 and 2 which are trying to translate a PnP game that was ment for PnP into a video game. 4th edition at the very least looks promising in that respect.

[nickbeat]

I personally love it. The loss of complexity is simply due to the fact that it has only been around a few months, unlike 3.5 which has a plethora of splat books.

In my experience so far, the new rules take a back seat to RP and I find fewer loopholes in it for exploitation. This way, all players seem to have equal strength. I know my rogue is kicking ass in battle as well as during skill challenges.

[DeathRose52]

I have my up and down feelings about 4E vs 3.5E , though i have only played 4E demo's but i gotten an idea of the changes from people that talked about it. I welcome the useful little scales of the Wizard now, always able to use a basic spell to stay in combat like Magic Missle. From talk it sounds like they took much the RP out for a combat system, which i will say i dont care for.

Personaly i like Savage worlds for the more simple system. Good fast combat system once you learn it and get it down, It still leaves abit for RPing as well.

[Phantom Lamb]

Yeah, I'm an old school Rolemaster nerd myself. I think we'll see that non-DnD heads are going to be much more receptive, but hopefully the DnD crowd will come around in time. It's always this way with big changes in any system.

[darcane]

I like the change and with all things ,change is eventually necessary.I am looking forward to many of the novels that will be coming from 4th edition as well.Since I have pretty much ran out of stuff to read ( owns over 150 FR novels).Some things are a bit , eh , but it will get better , put some faith into it and you will see.

[DurinRustbeard]

( owns over 150 FR novels)

*offers hands to receive something* Spare plz? I'm only at like 21 or so. I've read prolly 35 or so. But always love a good FR book. Thanks for the suggestion on War of The spiderqueen btw, Finishing book #3 atm.

[HollowedHeart]

Yeah..I know that things change..but I just cant bring myself to accept the 4e changes at the time....I dunno...Gnomes as monsters? Gnomes are cute lil fluffy thingies that cheer up the party! And..and, tieflings and dragonborn being core races?.....It's just hard for me to digest..

[HollowedHeart]

*breaks down and starts to cry*

[Elusa]

Well I've been playing 4th ED for a few weeks with a group, and I can't say it's a bad game. I still prefer 3.5, sure. Some things are better, some are worse. That's just what you get with a new edition, otherwise it'd be 3.75.

Some good things. 1st level characters are no longer inept losers who have to kill rats (not even dire rats) to level up. At will powers are great, and wizards are now useful even before they get spells like fireball. The alignments have less ambiguity, so they're now more about how you roleplay your character. It's simple. That's a good thing and a bad thing. The game should improve with supplement books. If you can't afford them and don't want to learn to "share," that can't really be helped.

My problems have mostly been stated. It is simple. I've lost that feeling of having a unique character, especially since my group isn't to the higher levels. Paladins can't fall, but that's what house rules are for. If my good aligned paladin starts killing people and selling illegal goods, I guarantee you he'll take away all of my paladin's powers, even though there's no rule on it. That's one of the advantages of having fewer rules, you have more room to make up your own.

I think that's one of the points some people never really get. D&D isn't a board game or a card game. The rulebooks are a guideline, that's it. You want gnomes as a player race? Bam. DM says they're a player race. Hell, they get their own nation if you want. Multiclassing? You don't have to take any penalties if the DM says you don't. New, more useful rituals? Done. The only hard things to add are the big things like new classes and changing major rules.

And Kasso, if 4th ED is too easy for you, your DM isn't trying hard enough.

[Thief Of Navarre]

In conclusion, fourth edition seems like crap when I look at it as a roleplaying system, and for table top I'll stick to 3.5 DnD and if I want to play something similar to 4th I'll play a small-scale game of Warhammer. However, once they do make a game out of it I will likely showed renewed interest and make the purchase, perhaps just in time for Neverwinter Nights 3, or a similar Baldurs gate title. As the roleplaying in an online environment would likely be a vast improvement on NWN 1 and 2 which are trying to translate a PnP game that was ment for PnP into a video game. 4th edition at the very least looks promising in that respect.

If they make a new Baldur's Gate title Im blaming you! Good things should stay dead and buried when they are gone: Not ressurected without a constitution score and only basic motor skills..

[Sammael]

I had a look at it, and while it looks like the system as a whole has been improved, I really don't like how each class is pigeon-holed into a different role.