1800-Assassin help hotline.

[Jaeram]

I'm not sure if you guys remember the Stormlord thread, and the path it took towards evil in general and assassins being evil, but around that time I set out to make myself a good aligned assassin (obviously not using the assassin prc).

So, I've talked to a few people privately about this before and was wondering what ideas some others on the forum might have, because I was looking in to making an assassin without using arcane trickster, but in the end it never had the same good feel I got from AT. I didn't necessarily want to post the build, because I put hours in to developing it, without using any outside help like a power build forum (because I wasn't necessarily trying to make a power build or I could change certain things from the very beginning).

So here's the build -
PRC Requirements:
Lore - 7
Disable Device - 7
Tumble - 7
Spell Craft - 4
Move Silently - 8
Hide - 10

Strong Heart Halfling (Natural Leader)

Feats - Dodge and Two Weapon Fighting. Base Stats - 12/18/10/16/10/10

Cast level 3 Arcane spells. (level 5 Wizard).

Any Non - Lawful

lvl 1 - Rogue
lvl 2 - Wizard (Illusionist, Rabbit)
lvl 3 - Rogue (Weapon Finesse, Evasion)
lvl 4 - Wizard (+1 Dex)
lvl 5 - Wizard
lvl 6 - Rogue (Mobility)
lvl 7 - Wizard
lvl 8 - Shadow Dancer (HiPS, +1 Dex)
lvl 9 - Wizard (Spell Focus Illusion, Greater Spell Focus Illusion)
lvl 10 - Arcane Trickster (Pilfer Magic, Ranged Legerdemain)
lvl 11 - Arcane Trickster (Sneak Attack +1d6)
lvl 12 - Arcane Trickster (Impromptu Sneak Attack 1, Toughness, +1 Dex)
lvl 13 - Arcane Trickster (Sneak Attack +1d6)
lvl 14 - Arcane Trickster
lvl 15 - Arcane Trickster (Sneak Attack +1d6, Improved Two-Weapon Fighting)

Level 15 gives up to level 6 spells.

What I'm essentially having trouble with is making a character that is really hard to hit, and can use HiPS. I seem to get the best effect using AT due to the spell support giving things like concealment, haste, +ac, but I have tried using other things like ranger/duelist/SD, Ro/As/SD, etc... and they never seem to quite live up to what I get with the AT (I use a private module to test the builds called Training Hall, normally test level 15 pc's with pretty crappy gear (like +3 dex and 2 +4 weapons TOTAL) against level 20-25ish creatures like balors etc.).

Anyone have any ideas?

[nickbeat]

Sadly, your Training Hall won't accurately represent how your character will play out in Sundren. Mage Armor is nerfed. I'm not sure if anything else is very different though. Looks to be a cool combination, actually I have a similar character in the works.

Also, The DMs frown upon just one level of SD.

[Kangleton]

I would make a Paladin/Rogue.

[Mighty_Draco]

I think a level 15 rogue or some rogue/shadow dancer is close enough...

[Jaeram]

Also, The DMs frown upon just one level of SD.

I try not to think of the classes as anything that is tied to the RP of my character (with the exception of some that have specific roles involved with them such as paladins) I just see them as a system or box that I have to work within to accurately express the way I perceive my character, just like how some people think that a characters stats shouldn't effect the way your character acts. So what if you've got 25 dex, you can still be the clumsiest person in town . Hopefully the DM's don't mind enough to hold that against me.

Although, as I mentioned I was looking for a way to express something similar without actually using arcane trickster, and I just figured that some other people on the forums may have heard of a good combination to depict a ninja-like/ assassin-like/ stealth specialized class combination. The only way to get HiPS on our server (at least right now, due to the basically level 15 cap ranger's HiPS at 17 is counted out) is level 1 Shadowdancer or level 8 Assassin, and since he isn't evil...

[MKartMaster]

I'm gonna go way out there with this.

Rogue(5)/Monk(9)/SD(1)

Strongheart Halfling (Natural Leader)

STR: 8 + 4 - 2 = 10
DEX: 8 + 8(10) + 2 = 18
CON: 8 + 4 = 12
INT: 8 + 4 = 12
WIS: 8 + 6 = 14
CHA: 8 + 4 = 12

1:Rog (Dash; Dodge)
2:Monk
3:Monk (Weapon Finesse)
4:Monk
5:Rog
6:Rog (Mobility)
7:Monk
8:SD
9:Monk (Stealthy?)
10:Monk
11:Rog
12:Rog (?)
13:Monk
14:Monk
15:Monk (?)

+DEX at all the levels you can I guess

Skills as you see fit, just don't forget your PRC reqs

The idea here is that you don't go for a quick kill, instead trying to slowly whittle down your opponent with small (like, +3d6 small) sneak attacks into stealth, then using your increased speed to get away or reposition yourself better.

Biggest problems are that you have a really small amount of SA dice, that there are obvious break points for power in the build, and it was really designed with level 15 in mind. And, as mentioned earlier, the DMs frown on just 1 level of SD.

Disclaimer: I put this together in about 15 minutes. I could definitely use refining. Lots of refining.

[Jaeram]

Hmm... I think I'm going to toy with that one, thanks for the idea Mkart. The whole idea behind the character is actually not damage at all, it's about having the ability to just *poof* at will. Although I was going to mention the part at the beginning you took dash and have monk levels, I thought the monk speed bonus would eventually override the 5% from dash wouldn't it? Or do they stack? It only stood out because I thought about the monk speed.

[MKartMaster]

Hmm... I think I'm going to toy with that one, thanks for the idea Mkart. The whole idea behind the character is actually not damage at all, it's about having the ability to just *poof* at will. Although I was going to mention the part at the beginning you took dash and have monk levels, I thought the monk speed bonus would eventually override the 10% from dash wouldn't it? Or do they stack? It only stood out because I thought about the monk speed.

I have no F-ing clue.

[EDIT]: You know, it might work better with a focus on ranged attacks. Can you say SHURIKENTOTHEFACE!!! ?

[sharringtonm]

Pretty sure you don't take a single level of Shadowdancer. Its not against the rules, but Nickbeat is correct, Dms frown on it. Heres why : http://www.sundren.org/forum/showthr...=shadow+dancer

Take it at your own risk.

[Kangleton]

Dash stacks with Monk Speed, and Shadowdancer was already nerfed so that people wouldn't abuse HiPS, wasn't it? So with that nerf already in place, I would think we should be able to take a level of it if we want, without consequence. Otherwise, take the nerf off and make us take a certain amount of levels.

Wait? What?

[Jaeram]

I want HiPS because he is supposed to be like a ninja, but we don't have a ninja class so I have to improvise, and we also don't have smoke bombs/flash bombs so he can't *poof* like a ninja either, so once again I have to improvise, and since he was supposed to be a stealth specialized build (not really anything else, just stealth, you can't see me on command) HiPS seemed like the best way to improvise it.

[nickbeat]

What was the nerf?

[Gairun]

You don't get HiPS until level 4 of Shadow Dancer.

I would go Monk 11/Shadow Dancer 4. I could list out the build fully for you, but trust me it's amazing and makes an awesome ninja character.

[Jaeram]

Is that only on our server that HiPS is at level 4?

[Gairun]

Yes it is. Use search! *beats Jaeram silly*