For me, personally, it's been really hard to roleplay a character with high Wisdom. I get high Int, because I swing more to that side in real life, but a character that is really in tune with their feelings, with their instincts, is something new. I still don't get it right a lot of the time (since I suffer from a Wisdom penalty in real life >.> ) but it's been an interesting paradigm shift.
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Difficult things to Role Play
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Originally posted by Laurk View PostI see Hellstrom get lipped off to constantly, and he doesn't seem to be able to do anything about it. In Legacy you would NOT speak to a noble that way if you were a commoner or you'd pay for it. Every noble knows that the only thing keeping the masses from dragging them into the streets and killing them is the illusion that they have authority, and external threats. Because of that, ALL nobles come together to punish insolent commoners so as to crush any rebellious inclinations before the can take root.
I'd love to see noble houses get their own factions, recruit oathsworn and knight their own chivalry.
I'd love to see, once some the invasions end, for tension to grow between noble houses and lead to wars.
something.
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Inbound nonsensical blerb because Lugwy is tired.
What's hard for me to roleplay?
Sticking to a side. I lean more towards the Chaotic/apathetic/happy-fluffy-bunnies-carebearing paradigm in real life, and thus it's been a real struggle to reconcile my personal tendencies with those of a character who's supposed to be the antithesis and actually commit to a cause, even at great personal expense, and the most compromise I could make to make roleplaying tolerable was to make said character a (mostly) repressed red oni. I do extend sincere apologies towards all those I interacted with who witnessed some of the harder times and wonder if Julia had gone completely bonkers.
Another hard thing to roleplay would be discrimination/racism. I echo cmosier in that it's encouraging to see that enough progress is made that roleplaying such a character is pretty difficult, but it's also frustrating for the same reason.I may be of the mind that you don't need to be ham-handed with the discrimination/racism, though; it can be something as easily shrugged off as a "you all look the same to me" remark from a human towards an elf as much as a lynch mob if the elf was a drow.
But please, keep one thing in mind for me. What have you become when even nightmares fear you?
- NessaJulia Arvison (retired) - The Comrade's Song (Gabriel)
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Originally posted by GodBeastX View Post"The drow thing is dumb. They are a monster race."
This is false on so many levels, let me give you guys some quotes right from the book as examples:
After the game, the king and the pawn go into the same box.
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Originally posted by greypawn View PostYou could also say its true on so many levels. Like a good chunk of drow lore comes from the monster manuals. I feel like your examples are more so debating alignments, which I don't do because people get way to over the top with a silly little game where good, evil, and the gods are for sure real per setting. I'm saying they are monsters, or a high majority of them should be. I'm sure there will always be those who don't fit the stereotype of their class and race. I'm fine with that. Heck, I've had to deal with criticisms myself for the morninglord i play not being stereotypical enough. Making a monster race playable always makes them a bit more humanized. And Sundren has that with orcs, drow, and vampires. Now lets all go shoot some nazis and not think about how any of them could be decent people just trying to support their family with a military career. Because wolfenstein is awesome and we play the good guy in it.
And if you want to use a video game reference, then be prepared for video game level RP instead of something in depth where some Nazi's might betray their own to aid, which was done.
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My theory on "good" drow is that they bloody well know how cruel and evil their evil kin are, but also how crafty and clever too.
Because of this, much how when you're rehabilitating an injured wild animal you try to avoid "humanizing it" so that it doesn't get into trouble by thinking its safe to approach humans, a good drow would avoid going near human civilizations in order to protect humans to getting used to them in case "evil" drow show up pretending to be friends too.
Because of this, logically if a drow is approaching you with a heartbreaking story of distrust due to skin-color, you're probably not unwise to kill it. However if a group of surfacers happens upon some drow hiding out in the wilderness who put their hands up claiming to be Elistree, Id say they are very much worth giving a chance.
I know that there are arguments that every race, no matter how dispicable has paladins who can crop up now and then, the question is: IF you were there, and it was your wife and children a few miles away in the village, would you risk their lives on the 1 in 1000 chance that you're dealing with a Drizzit instead of a sadistic zealot of Lloth who would delight in dragging your family into the underdark for "sport?"
PCs are not beholden to be racist against drow... I just like seeing it when they are, beacuse it seems like the more realistic response.
Dossey: Fair point, though I think Legacy's downfall had more to do with PCs becoming Lords and not wanting to risk their butts by scheming against each other. Unlike NPC lords who had no qualms about sicking their oathsworn against each other, and hatching plots, PC Lords didn't want to get killed and so they all wussed out and things got waaaaay to peaceful. Sundren doesn't have Permadeath, so that timid outcome might not be such an issue. In any case, I wouldn't mind seeing a bit more classism, and a bit more danger for disrespecting the noble class.
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Originally posted by Laurk View PostSundren doesn't have PermadeathOlivia Kimaris - Paladin of Lathander and Knight of the Northern Watch
Diary of Olivia
Originally posted by CornutoGlad everyone's being extra fucking ridiculous today.
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Originally posted by Laurk View PostMy theory on "good" drow is that they bloody well know how cruel and evil their evil kin are, but also how crafty and clever too.
Because of this, much how when you're rehabilitating an injured wild animal you try to avoid "humanizing it" so that it doesn't get into trouble by thinking its safe to approach humans, a good drow would avoid going near human civilizations in order to protect humans to getting used to them in case "evil" drow show up pretending to be friends too.
Because of this, logically if a drow is approaching you with a heartbreaking story of distrust due to skin-color, you're probably not unwise to kill it. However if a group of surfacers happens upon some drow hiding out in the wilderness who put their hands up claiming to be Elistree, Id say they are very much worth giving a chance.
I know that there are arguments that every race, no matter how dispicable has paladins who can crop up now and then, the question is: IF you were there, and it was your wife and children a few miles away in the village, would you risk their lives on the 1 in 1000 chance that you're dealing with a Drizzit instead of a sadistic zealot of Lloth who would delight in dragging your family into the underdark for "sport?"
Yeah, they do approach people, and no they don't preach Eilistraee with they do. They are told to as priests and try and win people over so people will trust good drow on the surface.
And I agree, it does make it hard to RP, because a lot of things may not make logical sense. Being honest with you, I think D&D would be far better without alignments at all, and people would just take everything at face value. I find playing Forgotten Realms in other game systems far more rewardingEspecially when you can just say "I killed them because that's what my character would do" and it's fine because you don't care about alignment shifts.
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I veer between appreciating and utterly hating the alignment system. Overall though I don't think I'd shed a tear if it was removed. There are just to many contradictions in it from the source books, particularly on the Law/Chaos axis.
At best it's a handy thumbnail to your characters overall mindset, a general overview of the the characters mindset, but not a concrete guide to every encounter. Exceptional circumstances may result in exceptional reactions, good doesn't mean nice, etc...
Your average good character will generally do good things, but it doesn't preclude different activities given the right circumstance, a singular or rare evil act won't suddenly change someone's alignment (unless it's a really, really dramatic act), though if they adopt a daily evil routine then it will.
Of course, the rules are slightly different for paragon characters - Paladins, Blackguards etc. They are the peaks of light and dark while most of life carries on in the shaded valley between them.It is the greatest of all mistakes to do nothing because you can only do a little - Do what you can.
Sydney Smith.
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Just wanted to chime in with my 2-cent opinion here. People find different elements of the game hard to roleplay; I might have a hard time roleplaying a scheming bastard because I am a pretty nice guy in reality and worry about hurting other players feelings, someone else may not find it easy to roleplay a good guy because they have a lot of fun being wicked and burning down orphanages (in the game). I have a friend who CANNOT be a good guy in PnP games because he just enjoys being bad too much, he was the worst paladin I ever saw.
However we choose the character we are in the game. If we find that we cannot wear that mask appropriately, we either work on it or we get rid of the character. I love having this alter-ego that is my own antithesis, because it lets me try on a new personality and flex those acting chops. I am probably a terrible actor, but I really did love being in theater when I was younger and wanted to pursue it as a career. Now I'm a chemist, so this stuff is my "weekend warrior" way of keeping that thing I love as a hobby. The fact that it is hard is good, because it means I can get better at it, and I am a crazy person who wants to be the best at everything even though I fail at many, many things I try.
So I like that there is conflict about how to react to situations. That is reality bleeding into fantasy. Life is messy and full of lots of gray areas, and it should be in the Realms too. So using the drow as an example, yes they are predominantly an evil race and their spider goddess is a horrible, cruel thing. That does not mean all drow are evil. If a group chooses to ignore that second statement because drow raided their homes and enslaved their families, that makes sense. If someone wishes to embrace that second statement because he/she believes in reserving judgement until facts about an individual are known, also makes sense. When those two groups come into conflict, even better! That is RP leading to consequences that make sense, and forcing you to stick to your character's guns and see how it unfolds.
Good RP should not always be easy, sitting around a fire, laughing and having a good time, at least not in a setting where conflict is an integral part of storytelling. I am just saying lets embrace the conflicts as players and know that we are better for it and that we grow through it. Thank you. /micdrop /essayI can't slow down, I can't hold back though you know I wish I could. No there ain't no rest for the wicked until we close our eyes for good!
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The thing with some D&D settings, such as the Realms, is that they tend to take things to a laughable extreme, to the point it just becomes silly. Alright, so good and evil are forces instead of philosophies.
The only problem is when you also start treating and demanding everyone to be either Mother Theresa or a saturday morning cartoon villain. One can easily come up with a myriad of situations where using a spell with an Evil descriptor would still have a positive outcome because of... common sense and logic, just like one can entrap a paladin in a situation where the only thing he can do is choose between the lesser of many evils. Because this isn't a children's fairytale unless the DMs are going for it. Yeah, it also isn't the real world either, but it's still made of stories about sentient beings with feelings and emotions usually far more complex than simply "I want to smite for my good god or I want to kill for my evil one".
Overall the whole black and white morality of D&D ends up being a trap for the game itself, since the books are ever so filled with inconsistencies when it comes to that.Sareth
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I enjoy the topic of Good vs Evil, Law vs Chaos, only because history has provided a vast differing of philosophies. One of the reasons I study this subject is because it is relative to everyday actions. I could simply write a long paper on this subject(I have many of times), but I will give you a few highlights of my thoughts. As with all philosophy, we must start with a question (sadly they will remain questions, because there is no universal answer)
Are good and evil absolute or are they relative to the conditions associated with time and place?
Yes and no, in a fantasy universe this is especially true. Where each decision is based on the doctrine of a deity, that is in fact an iatrical part of everyday life, dictates ones outlook. There is an endless amount generic situations that we can make up to show either side of this argument. In a society, lets say Cormyr, the population is under the threat of war. So the noble population has begun to consolidate resources, this would inevitably bring a portion of the micro society to which they help hold up. In the consolidation, commoners begin to starve and die. This was a side effect that the noble population knew would happen. Does this make them evil? Their actions caused the death of the innocent. The Noble population could easily justify their actions by saying that the resources were used to aid the solders. Was this an act to save their own property or the country as a whole?
Do conditions surrounding a particular situation make an act good and at another time make it evil?
Let us return to the above situation. If the noble house began to see the economic side effects of war (the populace is no longer investing in the micro economic system of say Suzail), at this point the noble family begins to go into self preservation mode and pulls necessities from the commoner to ensure house success, and the deaths ensue. Is it evil to protect yourself and family from economic doom? We could say that these actions are good.
Does an act appear to be good in the overall perspective, but when torn away from its environment appear to be evil?
Revisit the situation of above and look at the environment of such a "noble" nation. Lets face it, you were thinking Cormyr, must be a decent family and on the good axis. It was a good act, and thus maintains them a good part of the realms. So let us put this situation in Zhentil Keep, no we see the evil ooz from their eyes. All the family cared about is self preservation.
I could go on with this all day, but I will soon have to go into work, and thus it is difficult to focus on philosophy of an axis such as this, other wise my ability to psychologically help a child with behavior issues becomes skewed. So I leave you all with one thought.
If the knowledge of good and evil is instinctive, there should be uniformity of thought between various nations, religions and groups; but there are vast differences among them in almost every aspect.
What are the reasons?Active Characters
Hashart Datton- Marshal of the Black Hand
Oliver Ironhide- Guardian
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Dorin Hammond- Scout
Seith Ronson- Master of War
"A system of morality which is based on relative emotional values is a mere illusion, a thoroughly vulgar conception which has nothing sound in it and nothing true."
Socrates
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Every concept I come up with is a constant challenge for me, I've always used roleplaying games as an escape from reality, for many years it was me reaching for something I wanted to be. But overtime it's become more an experiment with empathy and projection, I love to escape my own personal moral codes, my standards for work ethic, habbits and demeanor.
I also have always distanced myself from characters that have similar background troubles that I share... I've played characters for instance with identity issues in the past, and they're always the greatest challenge. They hurt to play them, and it always made me take a step back from my computer.
Example; Revva Lionson was a character I played on another server, he was a powerful, badass super cleric of some god of vengeance and retribution (Yes, both, so slippery slope paladin god.) The character had given up his name, and concealed all his features within a full suit of armor (Nobody questioned that because it wasn't an Arson's Hood). Most people came to know him as Priest or Holyman (As YourMoveHolyMan loved to call him.)
Character's RP was amazing, he had awesome interactions and was a very much smite first ask questions later individual, no tolerance for evil and wasn't afraid to get violent about it AND throw the first punch.
But, somehow, all those issues sorta reflected on myself, and instead of walking away from the computer fulfilled, I found myself feeling more empty and drained afterward. I might return to the concept in the future, the character was amazing, and now that those issues are sorted I might be fine.
But as time goes on, and I find myself with other new issues, I can't help but feel that another character whose issues reflect my own in real life won't do the same thing to me.
Pretty much me just saying; I don't really have trouble RPing most anything external around others, difficult concepts for me come from within, everything else is fair game. (Except rape, that shit makes me uncomfortable. Don't ask.)Aesa Volsung - Uthgardt Warrior
Formerly
Gabrielle Atkinson - Mage Priest of Torm
Anasath Zesiro - Mulhorandi Morninglord
Kyoko - Tiefling Diviner
Yashedeus - Cyrist Warlock
Aramil - Nutter
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