Gone for the Weekend!

[Shadechild]

See you all Tuesday =)

Don't blow up the Second Wind in my absence!

[Shadechild]

After the latest events and the feedback I received from it, I'm taking a leave of absence from Sundren.

I know most of you don't care, I never really played anyone important. But the fact that there is so much spite here is really negative.

The DM team has been wonderful so far and I must say, Grinning Death, Lotus and a few others kept me motivated enough to play. Thank you very much for being patient with me and working hard to make me feel in-the-loop.

I'm sorry in advance if it seemed if I was 'whining' when I was open and honest in the Sundren One Month-ish thread. I felt comfortable enough to vocalize what I felt to be very disruptive to my server time and something that could have taken a separate, more productive, route but I find that I was wrong in thinking I could express an opinion.

As someone who was still rather new, and had 0 friends on Sundren. I found my time hard fitting in with the more... Renown, Characters. Being a low level nobody is never fun, especially when you have no one to play with. The OOC criticism I could have done without, but unfortunately that comes with every NWN2 community and I felt that there could have been more maturity to the situation, especially when you have Multiple Level 20's jumping a level 10.

Thank you again for your time. I wish those of you who were a positive influence on me Well.

[OnyxTigress]

Sad to see you say you had 0 friends when I know myself and others reached out to you oocly and tried to help you and such. But good luck with whatever you decide to do.

[sonuvalich]

Sorry to hear you are so upset, Shade. I remember feeling some very similar frustration when I first started playing, trying to break into the cliques and all that. It took a little while but it got better. And I understand your frustration at the unprovoked PvP, because that sort of crap is what sets me off on MMO's (yet I keep joining PvP servers because I am a masochist.)

I did not think you were whining so much as voicing heat of the moment frustration and venting, which we all do. I'm sorry someone felt the need to hit you when you were down with the negative rep. But I think you're focusing on the one jackass move when I saw a bunch of players and DM's respond to your post with condemnation of the people who attacked you. Perhaps the neg rep is from the people involved, worried they are going to get a talking to and lashing out at you for starting that?

You do what you think is best, but I think you should try hanging around. You do have to be proactive to get into stuff when nobody knows your character, shoehorn yourself into conversations and what not, but if you initiate interactions I think the players tend to be responsive.

[[DM] Grinning Death]

I hope you come back soon. While there are some players who don't know how to pose a constructive comment, there are those who are here willing to work with you. Shoot me a PM if/when you come back, so we can work something out for Vashara.

[Farmboy2003]

Sundren is a specific place, and I'm sure some would say dogmatic. I too, run my head against the wall sometimes, but some of those things turns out to be marks of quality. I have no idea what you to leave, but don't be overly dismissive when things seem the most harsh. What I mean to say is, don't write us off yet

[thaelis]

Noooo, don't leave because of one douchebag! There is actually only one that I can think of, and that's out of what...50 players?

Also, no one cares about forum rep! We know who the cool cats are without looking at those numbers. I mean, just look at DM Lotus's lack of rep...

[wangxiuming]

Sorry to hear that.

Sundren is a pretty hardcore RP server, so unfortunately PvP is a necessary part of that. It's also what can inspire a great deal of interesting personal and server-wide development. I'm with you Shadechild in despising PvP (i am so bad at it) and preferring to RP-out combat, but I recognize that sometimes that's just not practical; not to mention you lose a lot of the tension and drama that a real-time fight can give.

Don't be discouraged by losing at PvP! It happens, even to the best of PvPers. Especially if there's a numbers advantage and a level disparity. But as long as it doesn't step outside the rules, you gotta be able to roll with the punches and shake it off. If it does go beyond the rules, that's when you bring it to DM attention.

I don't know who gave you the negative rep, but I would hope that it is an isolated incident. Maybe there were other factors, I don't know, but dismissing other people's concerns as whining is a fast way to lose server population and that hurts everybody on the server, not to mention the server's reputation.

[Lugwy]

As Julia would say, they only win if you stay down, after all.

[Rithix]

You are more then welcome to make a Red wizard or a Thayan Knight! I hate to see people go, I know the frustrations.

If you need friends- I'll be your friend

[sonuvalich]

You are more then welcome to make a Red wizard or a Thayan Knight! I hate to see people go, I know the frustrations.

If you need friends- I'll be your friend

Just remember, when we show up to events, people leave because they hate us SO MUCH (IC I hope, though OOC could be possible.) So, if you're trying to make friends and have more sunshine and rainbows RP, Thayan may not be the route. On the other hand, we're on a lot, we toe the neutral line so you can interact with a wide variety of factions, and red is the new black. Also, bald is sexy!

[cmosier]

I haven't had much of a chance to RP with your character besides an odd episode in the fugue. I know it's difficult since a lot of the Triad isn't around or Byrun has corrupted them. :-) Seriously. Hang around. Look me up if you want to vent. I'll listen and I'm not judgmental.

[GateStrider]

I'm not much of a forums person, and I try to avoid them for various reasons, but I felt that the way this has panned out has forced my hand. I'm pretty sad to see the situation devolve in such a way. I think all of us could and can handle this a lot better, even given the circumstances. Even the 'bystanders' are going to have to pause and rethink situations such as this. Hopefully for the better of the community.


This is deplorable. Inhumane sludge hurling at its base form. Internet anonymity does not give license to actions such as this. The fact that forum posts are even graded at all in a public fashion is a volatile powder keg of potential assault on the feelings of others. Posts should have merit of their own to those that read them, and not require some form of karmic gimmick game to validate opinions. I will be first among those to condemn this sort of action against others in a community.

But that does not give license to the retaliatory 'reply' either. We are all held accountable for our actions and words. When matters can be handled in a fashion that promotes peaceful resolution, public outcry for pity through the passive aggressive remarks of forum signatures is just as dangerous to public cohesion as the initial slight.

The OOC criticism I could have done without, but unfortunately that comes with every NWN2 community and I felt that there could have been more maturity to the situation, especially when you have Multiple Level 20's jumping a level 10.

The OOC criticism could have most assuredly been removed from the situation by all parties. But an outcry for maturity can hardly be answered to when a person repeatedly draws attention to the injustice of an IC decision, whilst simultaneously:

The only thing I don't like about this server is the constant overhang of PvP. Yay look, a bunch of level 20's killed my level 10 again. Time to sit in Fugue for three to four days or risk losing my stuff! But wait, you get the courtesy Bad Timing PM! I guess that just wipes away the guilt of killing someone who wasn't a challenge at all.

assaulting the efforts of those who are trying to remedy the situation in a manner that does equate to a calm and peaceful resolution. As a note, the person who sent that PM wasn't even directly involved in the death of the character, yet still felt guilty enough to try and attempt a peaceful resolution. Something that was met with rebuke, and then later public condemnation in the form of the aforementioned quote.

Information is a vital part of many of these affairs, and when public attention is drawn to incidents like this in a manner that does not promote resolution and future prevention; instead it can have the detrimental effect of vilifying the party opposite to the one most vocal in its outcry for support and pity.

But I think you're focusing on the one jackass move when I saw a bunch of players and DM's respond to your post with condemnation of the people who attacked you.

Whilst all parties will hopefully agree in this instance that the situation could have been handled better, it could have been done so by both 'sides'. Third party assaults on the character of those involved in these kinds of despites that are made without full knowledge of the situation serve only as instruments of further escalation of the confrontation.

Point and case: My own Logs of the confrontation. To be noted is that my distance from dialogue precluded me from many of Elizabeth's initial emotes, colouring my view of the situation as one that she was unwilling to answer my characters dialogue with anything but emotes of awaiting her death and refusal to RP. Was my view wrong? Quite possibly. Yes. Does it justify the comment that it was unprovoked PvP?

And I understand your frustration at the unprovoked PvP, because that sort of crap is what sets me off on MMO's (yet I keep joining PvP servers because I am a masochist.)

Highlight to read:[spoiler=Logs]
[20:58] [YevelianD] Landristin Lyonstongue: [Talk] Ahhh... the Brooks woman.
[20:59] [YevelianD] Landristin Lyonstongue: [Talk] ... best not to let her live, brothers, sisters.....
[20:59] [VaIhalla] Gwynneth Morgan: [Talk] "Just one Tyrran, yes?" She shrugs.
[20:59] [YevelianD] Landristin Lyonstongue: [Talk] Do not underestimate her.....
[20:59] [Gatestrider] Velkaern Kalvath: [Talk] His greatblade audibly scrapes it's way free from it's place at his waist. Before he crunches it tip down into the dirt leaning his bulk on it.
[20:59] [YevelianD] Landristin Lyonstongue: [Talk] *grows at Elizabeth*
[21:00] [Blue] Sylnae: [Talk] She looks down the path over towards Elizabeth, and then back to the others.
[21:00] [YevelianD] Landristin Lyonstongue: [Talk] *does not care*
[21:00] [Gatestrider] Velkaern Kalvath: [Talk] "As you say, Brother."
[21:00] [YevelianD] Landristin Lyonstongue: [Talk] Take her...
[21:00] [bipola bear] Sylas Dresend: [Talk] *watchs with interest*
[21:00] [Shadechild] Elizabeth Brooks: [Talk] <i> Letting out a soft sound, she closes her eyes and waits to be slaughtered.
[21:00] [Gatestrider] Velkaern Kalvath: [Talk] "Have you any words for your next of kin as they are made to kneel, Tyrran?"
[21:00] [bipola bear] Sylas Dresend: [Talk] *folds his arms* aint got nothin to do with me.
[21:00] [VaIhalla] Gwynneth Morgan: [Talk] "By your lead, Gifted." She grimaces, mostly to herself.
[21:00] [Gatestrider] Velkaern Kalvath: [Talk] "We are not so merciless as to deny you that."
[21:01] [bipola bear] Sylas Dresend: [Talk] none of my business.
[21:01] [Shadechild] Elizabeth Brooks: [Talk] <i> She doesn't fight bacj
[21:01] [VaIhalla] Gwynneth Morgan: [Talk] She folds her arms.
[21:01] [YevelianD] Landristin Lyonstongue: [Talk] Excellent...
[21:01] [YevelianD] Landristin Lyonstongue: [Talk] Let us continue...
[/spoiler]
(On the note of respect. I respect you all not to metagame enough to post the above information. :P)
This showcases a need to slow things down, and to take measure of all sides before action is taken. Does that mean more consideration from me in the future? Absolutely. A conscious decision was made after the fact, that this was an unsatisfying encounter and was potentially to the detriment of the stories of all our collective characters. So all angles were investigated. I learned that I missed initial emotes that indicated that the character of Elizabeth was in duress when she was encountered. I learned that Landristin and Elizabeth had a history of PvP confrontations. Previously unknown information that could have potentially lead to a better outcome for all parties involved.

I'd rather RP something out than sit there and wait for you to Mechanically kill my character who isn't fighting back where you could just RP kill her, get it over with, walk away and avoid the Fugue entirely. Because I love nothing more than not playing on the server for a few days, only to log on. Barely escape a dungeon I had to leave in due to Real Life Priorities, then get killed when escaping death only to have to wait longer to even go and have the choice to sit at the Second Wind.

I share the sentiment that RPing out an action is a much better alternative. Mechanical PVP is not my preference. But to advocate the removal of fugue from the equation would only serve to make PvP more common place, and meaningless as everyone rushes with reckless abandon to fight one another with no consequence to failure. Yes, it can be harsh on the consequence side, and in the case of, (Barely escape a dungeon I had to leave in due to Real Life Priorities, then get killed when escaping death")extraneous situations, adjustments can be gladly made. A quick OOC ((remark could have potentially saved this from what it's become. But the situation never broke IC, so both sides continued to treat it as such. Communication is a two way street, and if your situation is never revealed fully until after the fact, blame can hardly be placed after the fact if anything is to reach peaceful resolution.

I really hate PvP, even if I understand it's a "necessity" of the server there should be a common ground of respect and consideration for the opposing party.

This respect and consideration for the opposing party also extends to not holding un-communicated OOC situations against them in a public and demonizing fashion. I reiterate that communication on both sides could have been vastly improved in this situation, and that is potentially to blame with the sense of immediacy that has wormed it's way into PvP interactions. This is a community, and it ceases to function as such when players no longer are content with communication, and instead see the better alternative as attempting to publicly shame their peers.

I would still be your friend, heck, I do consider you my friend as a fellow player, and I express my sincere regret this situation has come this far. We share the hobby of persistent worlds with one another, and sometimes we need to take a step back to reconsider how best to do so. It is my sincere hope that after however long you feel is necessary to be away from things, you do eventually come back. We can all work on this together. It's what PW's are about. Enriching each other's stories.

[Vaelek]

y'all motherfuckers, but +1 to the canadian above

[sonuvalich]

I may have jumped in rashly, admittedly. However, my comments about d-bag behavior were centered on the neg rep, not the PvP, and I stand by those. If the PvP had some RP merit and I am in the wrong on that, fine; I did only get one side of the story and responded in my own heat of the moment. I still think subdual would have been a good choice to whup ass without screwing a player OOC, but I do not have all the pieces apart from part of a log. So if you found my comments incendiary that was not their intent, it was more about offering a "yeah, we've all been there. Have a beer and get back on that horse."