Whoa....

[pixiegirl]

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012...nnecticut?lite

[Saulus]

A lot of Americans don't want to hear it, but these tragedies could have been prevented if there were more stringent gun control laws.

I have read there are states where it takes as little as 20 minutes to get cleared to buy a firearm, and yet no one sees a problem with this?

It's sad, but what is more sad is that nothing changes after these tragedies, despite their frequency.

[KingArthur]

Unfortunately, people tend to blame the weapons more then the people. If a person is going to shoot some one he is going to acquire the weapon either way. Otherwise.

This is a horrible act, no doubt. It is horrible by every angle. How can some one do something like this? Killing 5 year olds in a kindergarteners classroom? Extremely sad for all the family, and worst for the children who wont get to live life.

[Poltergeist]

Gun control in America is a deeply complicated issue, but the NRA and other pro-gun lobbies have completely drowned out any attempt at having a reasonable discussion on how to fix what is an obvious and terrible problem. If bridges were collapsing and killing people, or there were some other immediate and systemic problem that was resulting in massive deaths Congress would be in debate about how to fix it, and there would be a wide national discussion. Only when it comes to gun rights is it impossible to engage in meaningful discussion, while the problem continues unabated.

While a blanket ban on rifles and shotguns has almost no support in America, specific reforms do. Background checks, prohibition against ownership to felons and the criminally insane.

More than that though, our society as a whole is deeply flawed in that violence in normalized and seeking treatment for mental health issues is stigmatized. Adding powerful weapons to that mix is a recipe for disaster.

It would be ideal if the NRA and other pro-gun lobbies would attempt to address the other factors that go into shooting sprees and gun violence, as they wouldn't be comprising their values but would be working to curb what is tragically no longer a rare occurrence.

Unfortunately this will probably not happen.

"Maybe I'm a dreamer, but I wish mental health care were as easy to get as, say, a gun."

For any parents or guardians of small children out there, here is Mr. Roger's advice on dealing with tragedies

"What children probably need to hear most from us adults is that they can talk with us about anything, and that we will do all that we can to keep them safe in any scary time."

[Saulus]

Unfortunately, people tend to blame the weapons more then the people. If a person is going to shoot some one he is going to acquire the weapon either way.

I'm going to reply to this because this is a specific argument I find very flawed. I wouldn't be surprised if this tragedy, as with the last one in recent memory (Colorado), the weapons were all purchased legally. This begs the question, if they were more difficult to get, would the outcome have been different? Maybe, but I think any chance is better than none. What if they had to steal the weapons to get them, and got caught? (for example)

Also, this same argument can be used with the war on drugs, which costs billions and billions of dollars of taxpayer money... when quite clearly people are going to do drugs whether or not the government says it's okay, and there will be a black market to produce them because it's a multi-billion dollar industry (nevermind the hypocrisy of a 'free country' not letting you do what you want with your own body).

So if enforcement is so ineffective, why bother enforcing the law? People are still going to get/do the drugs anyway...

As Poltergeist mentions though, because it has to do with guns, a rational discussion can never be had about this.

[KingArthur]

Well we must look back to the founding of the country. Guns and the 'right' to bear arms really was a way of life. Muskets could only do so much damage as a single weapon. It was used for hunting, as well as Militias against tyranny. I doubt the founding fathers of the united states saw these types of efficient rifles in the future. However, like all things set up by them, we must respect the Constitution. I am a a believer in government, and regulation (Democrat). Yet, I do believe its within our right to get a weapon (I don't own one, but i take pride in the ability to get one).

Though, the true out come of a crazy man getting a weapon such as the ones he used (Two pistols and a rifle) is a reality.

This doesn't diminish how I feel (Which is horrible) about what happened here. What I would like to know is where he got the weapons? His brother said in a news report he had history of mental illness.

[DM_BAMF]

Well we must look back to the founding of the country. Guns and the 'right' to bear arms really was a way of life. Muskets could only do so much damage as a single weapon. It was used for hunting, as well as Militias against tyranny. I doubt the founding fathers of the united states saw these types of efficient rifles in the future.

However, like all things set up by them, we must respect the Constitution.

Denying that change to the way we live our lives and the laws we follow could be to the betterment of the people sounds like an awfully poor concept to follow. Perusing the ability to regulate sounds like an awfully good one.

With respect to these founding fathers, they must've been pretty short-sighted if they held to the belief that everything they set on a piece of paper must be followed to the letter without exception in times after them.
Which I seriously doubt they were.

I doubt our generation will see any noticeable change in gun laws in the United States, but I do at the very least hope that people can manage to be more open to an evolving attempt at improving the lives and security of the nation they live in still in our lifetime.

Maybe.


As an addendum: This is not meant to rile anyone up, I'm a foreigner and not accustomed to the gun loving ways of some North Americans. The above is evidence of a foreigner's opinion on the matter. Call it euro-trash blabber or call it outsider insight into a matter that's obviously plaguing your 'states.

[Doubtful]

It's a tragedy, but Sundren has had a long and firm stance against bringing political discussion to the boards.

We've all got assholes, no need to prance around showing them off.

I won't lock this thread yet, but this is the only warning on the matter.

[Kitsunestume]

I support the right to bear arms!


Now I'll just get out of the way before things get back to actual discussion. . .
Hope no-one minds trying to lighten the mood.

[Memnoch1962]

I Have no problems listening to any view on the matter of gun control, whether its from someone who lives in the U.S or from someone who doesn't. Everyone has a right (at least here in the U.S.) to voice their opinion. The thing that is worrisome is that when things like this happen, most of the time people want to blame the gun but NOT the person. Everyone I've encountered here in Sundren has always struck me as intelligent people. So with that said I will say what I have said my whole life. A gun (or any other type of weapon) can lay on a table and never hurt a soul unless SOMEONE picks it up and uses it. You can ban guns, swords, knives, sticks and stones. You will never be able to disarm evil.

[Poltergeist]

Jonathon Swift said it best when he said, "It is impossible to reason someone out of something that he did not reason himself into in the first place."

Thankfully, I share Memnoch's belief in the community to have a civil debate and discussion. I'm working on my own post, but in order to keep this a rational discussion I would strongly encourage everyone to use citations and statistics, and to refrain from logical fallacies, specifically the strawman and tu quoque.

[Catastrophe]

This is something that is so scary, and is such an eye opener.

I've volunteered at my daughter's school where they have done a practice fire alarm thing where they had all the children hide under the tables in case something like this ever happened there, and it's heartbreaking to have to tell first graders to hide under their desk and to be quiet in case someone bad came around. And they still don't fully comprehend.



My heart goes out to all the families.

[Mournas]

On the Topic of Gun Control

The Second Amendment to the Constitution of the United States of America, whether it protects a collective or individual right of a person is irrelevant, does protect a right that a person may enforce. This right is the right to bear arms. However, the Second Amendment does not mention anything upon the scope of that right.

Regulations do not prohibit or infringe upon that right, they simply form an obstacle in which a person has to climb over in order to legally purchase and own a gun. Having stronger regulations in place would not be a bad idea. However this does not prevent or impede someone from having access to a firearm.

As Poltergeist so adequately quoted for Issue that brought up the topic of Gun Control. It is impossible to reason someone out of something that the person did not reason their self into in the first place. There are many factors that are involved in a tragedy such as today shooting. Two of these factors, the KEY factors in my opinion, are education and mental health.

[pixiegirl]

This Christmas won't be forgotten by many, many people in that town.

[pixiegirl]

Image removed by DM Doubt.