Wizards can cast Fireballs? WTF?

[Dayledose]

Many of the folk who know Vigo have heard me complain about this, so I wanted to post up and see if there are other *mage types* that share my view. Vigo hit lvl 7 ,got 4th lvl spells (stoneskin) and suddenly he's a lvl 1 ranger with buffs.

Don't misunderstand, I see the importance of buffing frontline types, after all a wizard without a meatshield is not long for this world. I would just like to point out that wizards have a limited number of spell slots and we usually aren't too good with melee/ranged weapons. Spells are our stock and trade, it may be my fault for not setting ground rules, for wanting us to all make it alive or becuase Vigo's just such a sucker for the female persuasion. One thing is for certain though, just because you have been buffed to the max, does not mean you are a god and should rush in to let the enemies beat upon you till you can kill them all.

Sometimes a well placed throwing axe or arrow can bring 1 or 2 of them to the group without disturbing the larger force. I guess I'm just saying that I have noticed some general lack of basic tatics that , I have found, are a part of my PnP sessions. I don't mean this to be a rant and I'm not trying to get everyone riled up, just wanted to state some of my opionions about some of the experiences I've had when Vigo joins a group.

I'd love to hear what some of the other mages have to say too.

** hope This meets the standard of TBS's Grammar post too**

[Fezzik]

The pulling of one now generally pulls the group, unless they're very scattered and can't hear the shouting of the one being attacked. There are very few raw wizards that can take on what is out there without being something else as well.... at least until they can do stuff that will hurt the enemy with defensive spells.

As a mage, I feel somewhat relegated to the roll of buff miester. Even as a cleric / FS you do that, but not as well as a mage can. To be honest though, it's really really really nice to have mages that buff party members instead of saving all their spells for themselves and letting everyone else get hosed.

[Kaeldorn]

The primary reason priests and wizards are more or less expected to buff is because their defensive spells are just that damn powerful. Whenever I'm with a wizard who doesn't buff me up to the heavens in favor of self protection and utility/damage spells, I tend to just hang in the back, let him take the beating and only jump in to deal a few hits once they are already hacking away at the wizard (and missing). If I don't, I'll surely die. Even against enemies several levels lower than me.

In the high-end game, warrior types are useless without those buffs unless they are fully optimized for combat, with little to no options of taking any RP-related skills or feats. Encounters are balanced towards being handled with those buffs. And if there is no DM to custom tailor the course of the battle, people aren't so inclined to hit the front lines with a big risk of getting slaughtered. So I'd say they choice is between you handling everything alone with a few others tagging along, or boosting their strength with fewer options in battle yourself.

In a DM event, there is a lot more leeway to use varying spells/abilities/strategies.

[cmosier]

Half and half is the best way to go. Warriors have the hit points to take the damage and a well placed fireball means they shouldn't take as much damage. If fighters and other fighting types want to super buff, best make friends with a good divine caster as well. I'll buff to an extent, but to power out your warriors and leave nothing for your own defense, well that's just foolishness.

[black hand]

As a spell user first and foremost... (even in regular D&D)... AOE spells such as fireball are tricky to use and are best put to use when the Wizard is on his/her own. When regulated to a group, you will get more bang for your buck, ~so to speak~ with adding some buffs to others, especially if you choose helpful spells that last hours/level or minute/level, because after level 6 when the rest rules come into being you have to choose your spells carefully.

It's all about control...

... save some spells for enhancing allies, save some spells for controlling the battleground and have some damaging spells when you have the opportunity to pick people off. It really depends on who you're with and how many, then it's up to you to take the strengths that you know your allies to have and work with them. As a wizard, you want to save such spells for when you need them. A well placed fireball is a good way to initiate combat while your allies wait in ambush, then as the battle takes place, use fire arrow & lightning bolt for more precision based attacks. One can also make use of a few well placed Illusory walls to trap enemies to be fireball & arrow fodder if you take stock of the ground you are to fight on.

[gbbishop]

good comment bh!

vigo, if you have problems with the way your "groups" work.... by all means talk it out.

then again, there are some folk who just love the charge and you will never stop them with the enemy in sight.

try to make them wait til you blast of your fb! and if they still dont listen blast anyway... if they can take it, fine. if not... well they will learn to listen to you in the future.

another thought, throw a quick protection from elements on them and blast with abandon!

there are lots of solutions that do not include a rant even one that is not quite a rant and very well meaning.

tuppence administered.

[Product of Void]

I play alot of wizards I just like them. Though never a pure wizard for all the strength gained multiclassing adds alot more for the minor weakness of duration/spell penetration.

Its a tricky class, Feats determine how focused you are, and classes affect even more. Then you have stats.

On top of all that there are a few styles of casting.

Melee, offensive, defensive, and a few more I figure can't think of them.

Spells have sets for self buffing when alone, and group when in a group. Keep hidden less your a melee mage. Wands/scrolls are your new best friend.

If you want to throw down spells like rain, sorcer is way to go. Limited spells but lots of them.

Wizard is more a tatical caster, must think and prepare before an during a battle.

[Kaybrie]

Bare in mind, the spells/buffs are balanced, but the nature of NWN2, with maxed health for HD, severely cripples offensive spells. Sundren itself revolves around enemies with extreme durability on a DnD level, so balance naturally shifts towards buffing the characters that do consistent damage if you want to succeed.

Though Wizards still make perfectly viable 'boss killers' in that they are fully capable of just saving up their spells, tossing out a few buffs here and there, and when you reach the toughest badguy in the dungeon, you let loose, and let the extreme DPS fly.

[CynicalMadness]

I play alot of mages also and I dont like being strictly buffer. I think its waist of magical tallent. I feel that the fighter types demand that you buff them just so they can run off and kill more stuff leaving you in the back or stranded all alone and having no fun. So, what do I do? I RP. I'll stand there with my staff in hand and do nothing but talk. I throw up defencive spells and that usually about it. As a mage you really have to find the right people that will listen when you say.. "Hey! I got this really nasty AOE spell that will dispable all the bad guys but it takes preperation." In my experiance the fighter types have a limited view on any tatical situation or solution. And Buffing an entire party really takes two casters not one. Anyone play the OC?

Cyn

[Dayledose]

I'd like to thank you all for the comments, BH had some interesting points and I have started to talk with some of my "regular" group memebers. I'm glad that nobody took the post the wrong way. From talking to some of the "seasoned" players that have been on the server for some time. I have learned that there are a lot of new players lately, myself being one.

As for the Buffs; I do and will continue to buff at least one member of my group. My only real complaint was to be in a group where all my spell slots were having to be devoted to defensive spells for the front line types. Bah, it's a dead horse..*nightmare anyone?*
I just hope to see some more use of tactics on the server. I don't suppose it's nice to just let someone who has to charge everything die is it? Any way I love Sundren and I will continue to play here. The whole team and community is grand.

Respectfully
The Dose man